Large numbers of members apostatizing - says Marlin K Jensen

[_Drifting]

According to Jensen you are not doing a particularly good job of preventing the second great Mormon apostasy... ;-)

There's a lot of people in leadership who rely on my expertise in this area.... ;)

I don't doubt that for a second. You are a knowledgeable guy.
If you were in my ward we would have great chats.

[_Runtu]

Runtu, omitted the obvious reason (at least obvious by most boards like this) - they found the church discouraged selfish and self-centered behavior.

I'm just happy that Elder Jensen has acknowledged that a lot of us left because we couldn't justify belief in the church anymore. That some people still feel the need to project their own motivations on others is of no consequence. The Brethren know what is going on and are apparently trying to address it. That's a good thing.

And no, people aren't leaving in droves, but enough are leaving to get the church's attention.

[_Drifting]

And no, people aren't leaving in droves, but enough are leaving to get the church's attention.

droves plural of drove (Noun)
Noun:
1.A herd or flock of animals being driven in a body.
2.A large number of people or things doing or undergoing the same thing: "tourists stayed away in droves".

I think the term 'droves' fits the words that Jensen uses to describe the quantity involved.
He equates it to the great Kirtland apostasy where I think in the region of a third of members left the Church. Is 33% of 14,000,000 not 'droves'?

[_Runtu]

I think the term 'droves' fits the words that Jensen uses to describe the quantity involved.
He equates it to the great Kirtland apostasy where I think in the region of a third of members left the Church. Is 33% of 14,000,000 not 'droves'?

I think we all agree that there is a definite problem in the church right now with larger numbers of people leaving. I really have no idea how many people are leaving, but I have seen people in leadership positions, ward anchor families, who have left. I've never seen that before.

[_Drifting]

I think the term 'droves' fits the words that Jensen uses to describe the quantity involved.
He equates it to the great Kirtland apostasy where I think in the region of a third of members left the Church. Is 33% of 14,000,000 not 'droves'?

I think we all agree that there is a definite problem in the church right now with larger numbers of people leaving. I really have no idea how many people are leaving, but I have seen people in leadership positions, ward anchor families, who have left. I've never seen that before.

:-) okay, let's settle on 'it's between droves and large numbers'

I think the quality of member that the Church is losing has definitely changed and I suspect that's a massive concern. These are the people that hold wards together, that fill the 'big' callings and produce more Mormons, pay the majority of the tithing etc. And have been in the Church a long time.

[_bcspace]

I think the quality of member that the Church is losing has definitely changed and I suspect that's a massive concern. These are the people that hold wards together, that fill the 'big' callings and produce more Mormons, pay the majority of the tithing etc. And have been in the Church a long time.

I don't see that. But I do see their children not following in their footsteps.

[_Drifting]

I think the quality of member that the Church is losing has definitely changed and I suspect that's a massive concern. These are the people that hold wards together, that fill the 'big' callings and produce more Mormons, pay the majority of the tithing etc. And have been in the Church a long time.

I don't see that. But I do see their children not following in their footsteps.

I think that's a valid observation too. The Church has highlighted the challenges it faces in retention in the 18 - 30 single adult segment of the membership.

[_Quasimodo]

I think that's a valid observation too. The Church has highlighted the challenges it faces in retention in the 18 - 30 single adult segment of the membership.

The Church faces an insolvable problem. Mormonism has always had a battle between it's teachings and reality. Converts and existing members have always had to choose between the Book of Mormon and scientific truths. This is also true for most religions, but the LDS faith has specific problems in that regard. It's claims are far outside the norm and are much easier to counter. Throw in a checkered history and it becomes untenable.

What's happening now is that the average person is much more educated than even in the recent past. The internet has made it possible for anyone to do serious research into any subject.

The LDS faith cannot withstand that sort of scrutiny. The wiser people become, the more members the Church will lose. It's inevitable.

[_bcspace]

The Church faces an insolvable problem. Mormonism has always had a battle between it's teachings and reality. Converts and existing members have always had to choose between the Book of Mormon and scientific truths.

That doesn't seem to be the case either. This never comes up in Church probably because there are no scientific problems associated with the Book of Mormon. Not DNA, not steel, not horses, nothing.

[_Zelder]

It's obvious there is an apostasy occuring. I don't see the church shrinking or people leaving in droves though. To me this is all fullfillment of prophecy. The times of the gentiles are reaching their fullfillment. Maybe it's about time to batten down the hatches. I expect, the times of the Jews to be coming soon.