Franktalk, Are we hear to learn about good and evil?

[_Drifting]

Okay, so for some the purpose of this life is not to learn about good or evil.

No, we all come here to learn good from evil. Exactly how that is accomplished I don't know.

The child that dies within minutes of being born does not learn good from evil. I think we can say that, don't you?

[_Franktalk]

The child that dies within minutes of being born does not learn good from evil. I think we can say that, don't you?

No.

Life enters the body when the blood flows. That is way before birth.

[_Quasimodo]

The child that dies within minutes of being born does not learn good from evil. I think we can say that, don't you?

No.

Life enters the body when the blood flows. That is way before birth.

????. Is this your own definition? How can a new born that dies at birth have time to learn anything?

You might want to give some thought to the things you say before you put them up in a post.

[_Runtu]

????. Is this your own definition? How can a new born that dies at birth have time to learn anything?

You might want to give some thought to the things you say before you put them up in a post.

Franktalk's position is speculation. Here's the church handbook on this issue:

"It is a fact that a child has life before birth. However, there is no direct revelation on when the spirit enters the body."

[_Quasimodo]

????. Is this your own definition? How can a new born that dies at birth have time to learn anything?

You might want to give some thought to the things you say before you put them up in a post.

Franktalk's position is speculation. Here's the church handbook on this issue:

"It is a fact that a child has life before birth. However, there is no direct revelation on when the spirit enters the body."

Thanks Runtu! I wonder how much of the other things Franktalk says are just speculation, as well.

[_Runtu]

Here's a little more from an Ensign article:

One issue involved is whether an unborn child in the mother’s womb is a living soul. The answer to that question may depend in part on the answer to another question—When does the spirit enter the body? On this second question some Church leaders have made comments. President Brigham Young said he believed that “when the mother feels life come to her infant it is the spirit entering the body.” (Journal of Discourses, 17:143.)

The message “The Origin of Man” issued by the First Presidency in 1909 stated: “The body of man enters upon its career as a tiny germ embryo, which becomes an infant, quickened at a certain stage by the spirit whose tabernacle it is, and the child, after being born, develops into a man.” (James R. Clark, comp., Messages of the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1970, 4:205.)

Elder Bruce R. McConkie, referring to “The Origin of Man,” expressed his opinion that the message “appears to bear out the concept that the eternal spirit enters the body prior to a normal birth, and therefore that stillborn children will be resurrected.” (Mormon Doctrine, 2d ed., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966, p. 768.)

It is not clear exactly at what point of development that “certain stage” of quickening—when the spirit makes eternal claim to the body—occurs. Even though quickening occurs before birth, we still do not know definitely when a living soul comes into existence. In fact, some Church leaders have suggested that a living soul does not exist until three essential elements—the body, the spirit, and the breath of life—are all present.

[_Franktalk]

Franktalk's position is speculation. Here's the church handbook on this issue:

"It is a fact that a child has life before birth. However, there is no direct revelation on when the spirit enters the body."

I ask you if Adam had a spirit? Adam was never born of woman.

We are spirits and have been spirits before coming here. When does scripture say that life enters the body?

Gen 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

Gen 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Gen 9:4 is pretty clear. So for me when blood flows life has entered the body. You can believe what you wish.

[_Runtu]

I ask you if Adam had a spirit? Adam was never born of woman.

I don't think you can unequivocally say that.

We are spirits and have been spirits before coming here. When does scripture say that life enters the body?

Gen 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

Gen 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Gen 9:4 is pretty clear. So for me when blood flows life has entered the body. You can believe what you wish.

I don't care what you believe. I am just saying that what you believe conflicts with the LDS church's teachings.

[_Franktalk]

I don't care what you believe. I am just saying that what you believe conflicts with the LDS church's teachings.

Because some people say they don't know that somehow translates into me having a conflict? I know very little, I believe much more. I hope to know much more one day.

I happen to believe in what Brigham Young believed.

That the church should be guided by the Spirit and not by men.

[_Drifting]

I don't care what you believe. I am just saying that what you believe conflicts with the LDS church's teachings.

Because some people say they don't know that somehow translates into me having a conflict? I know very little, I believe much more. I hope to know much more one day.

I happen to believe in what Brigham Young believed.

That the church should be guided by the Spirit and not by men.

Frank - do you believe all that Brigham Young believed or just the beliefs of his that conincide with yours?

In terms of Adam's creation - you don't know that he wasn't born of woman.
How was Eve manufactured?

If you believe that it is possible for a baby in the womb or a baby of 1 minute old can learn the difference between what the world perceives as good and evil then you are going to have to support that with something other than your testimony.