Darth J wrote:Droopy wrote:If the priesthood ban was racist, as this coterie of LDS intellectuals claim, why have the Brethren not admitted to such? Why have the Brethren left it to the neo-orthodox LDS "apologetics" elite to "out" the Brethren here?
To his dying day, Charles Ponzi never admitted to committing fraud.
Therefore, he was not a con man.
Neither did Joseph Smith.
Droopy wrote:
Yes, they will, just as leftists such as yourself will continue to hold power in various capacities, dominate the institutions of society, and continue to cripple, stunt, debase, and destroy human beings wherever they have influence.
Why would one want to abolish "creed?"
They would indeed, and since I've never denied or argued that racial prejudice plays no role in society
You're raving
Being genetically black and choosing to be a member of a certain religious organization and accept its teachings is about as apples/oranges as one can get, Tarski.
The Mormon apostle Mark E. Petersen gave a talk at Brigham Young University in 1954 concerning race relations. Here are select parts of that talk:
“Is there reason then why the type of birth we receive in this life is not a reflection of our WORTHINESS OR LACK OF IT in the pre-existent life?...can we account in any other of way for the birth of some of the children of God in darkest AFRICA, or in flood-ridden CHINA, or among the starving hordes of INDIA, while some of the rest of us are born here in the United States? We cannot escape the conclusion that because of performance in our pre-existence some of us are born as Chinese, some as Japanese, some as Indians, some as Negroes, some as Americans, some as Latter-day Saints. THESE ARE REWARDS AND PUNISHMENTS, fully in harmony with His established policy in dealing with SINNERS AND SAINTS, rewarding all according to their deeds....
Using the Chinese as an example:
“Let us consider the great mercy of God for a moment. A Chinese, born in China with A DARK SKIN, and with all the handicaps of that race seems to have little opportunity. But think of the mercy of God to Chinese people who are willing to accept the gospel. IN SPITE OF WHATEVER THEY MIGHT HAVE DONE IN THE PRE-EXISTENCE TO JUSTIFY BEING BORN OVER THERE AS CHINAMEN, if they now, in this life, accept the gospel and live it the rest of their lives they can have the Priesthood, go to the temple and receive endowments and sealings, and that means they can have exaltation. Isn't the mercy of God marvelous?
Concerning Africans:
“Think of the Negro, CURSED AS TO THE PRIESTHOOD.... This negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a BLACK SKIN, and possibly being born in darkest Africa—if that negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. IN SPITE OF ALL HE DID IN THE PRE-EXISTENT LIFE, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there AS A SERVANT, but he will get celestial glory.”
On civil rights. What people of African decent want:
“The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent, and then, of course, they have been persuaded by some of the arguments that have been put forth.... We who teach in the Church certainly must have our feet on the ground and not be led astray by the philosophies of men on this subject... “I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the negro is after. He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a café where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the negro seeks absorbtion with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage.That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feeling to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace.'...
On segregation. A Godly principle:
“Now let's talk SEGREGATION again for a few moments. Was segregation a wrong principle? When the Lord chose the nations to which the spirits were to come, determining that some would be Japanese and some would be Chinese and some Negroes and some Americans, He engaged in an act of SEGREGATION.... When he told Enoch not to preach the gospel to the descendants of Cain who were BLACK, the Lord engaged in SEGREGATION. When He CURSED the descendants of Cain as to the Priesthood, He engaged in SEGREGATION.... “Who placed the Negroes originally in darkest Africa? Was it some man, or was it God? And when He placed them there, He SEGREGATED them....The Lord segregated the people both as to blood and place of residence. At least in the cases of the Lamanites and the Negroes we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that He placed a dark skin upon them as a curse—as a punishment and as a sign to all others. He forbade intermarriage with them under threat of extension of the curse. (2 Nephi 5:21) And He certainly SEGREGATED the descendants of Cain when He cursed the Negro as to the Priesthood, and drew an absolute line. You may even say He dropped an Iron curtain there....
Mr. Petersen would that every person of African decent drive a cadillac:
“Now we are generous with the negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. BUT LET THEM ENJOY THESE THINGS AMONG THEMSELVES, I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation? It reminds me of the scripture on marriage, 'what God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.' Only here we have the reverse of the thing— WHAT GOD HATH SEPARATED, LET NOT MAN BRING TOGETHER AGAIN.”
gdemetz wrote:Yes,that sounds similar to Christ referring to the gentiles as "dogs." Any criticisms of Him? What we need to understand about all this is that God, as well as His prophets, is not a racist, but He does make judgments and punishments accordingly. There was a great judgment before the spirit creation in which God chose Christ's intelligence to be the first born spirit. Likewise, there was a judgment before the "physical" creation in which we were placed in the proper world, born at the proper time, and born to the proper parents, according to our thoughts and actions in the "first estate." Some people may say; "I can't help myself; I was born this way." However, what they don't understand is that even though one may have forgotten the first estate, their thought and behavior patterns have carried over into this life. So, we need to quit whining, face up to our circumstances like a man (or woman), realize that God loves us and wants the best for us, and is always reaching out to us, and act accordingly.
gdemetz wrote:What I meant was that God is the one who has made judgments as far our placement in this life.
gdemetz wrote:Yea, that's true, but when Christ set up His church, then that group would be the right one.