son of Ishmael wrote:CFR. I served on three bishoprics back in the day and it was made very clear that if a person did not respond "correctly" to the interview question, they need to correct themselves and try again.
Though i appreciate your anecdote, it is not consistent with the Church Handbook of Instructions - Book 1 (Section 7.1.1 and 3.3.3) . The only direction is that after an interview the recommend is signed "if the person is worthy". Worthiness is not determined by checklist alone...and as a former member of the bishopric surely you are familiar with such a basic human truth.
Can someone be deceitful in an interview and still receive a recommend? sure, but they can also be deceitful and not receive one. The wisdom of that is apparent.
Nevertheless, in an effort to illustrate the fallacy of your "anecdote" as a means of "counter proof", please CFR.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
Mktavish wrote:Just use some subjective reasoning ... its one of two reasons most likely.
Bishop requires it for his food orders? (i understand it that he donates all his money to UNICEF)
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
[MODERATOR NOTE: subgenius, it is absolutely NOT necessary to bump a thread literally three minutes after the last time you post in it, then again literally one minute after you bumped it before.
Please don't do that again.]
my apologies...it was 2 different bumps that should have been consolidated in one.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
Drifting wrote: FIRST QUESTION: Has the principle regarding meat in the WoW been officially changed, in similar fashion to the clarification of hot drinks etc?
No. The meat one just gets ignored, unlike hot drinks which were meant to be temperature until it became obvious that temperature did not matter. What is funny is the meat advice is probably the best piece of advice other then tobacco, yet it gets ignored so thoroughly.
So, the Church has not, officially, amended or reinterpreted the principle about eating meat sparingly; in times of famine or cold only. So, TBM's do you stick to this or have you been lying to the Bishop when he asks about your WoW compliance?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Drifting wrote:So, the Church has not, officially, amended or reinterpreted the principle about eating meat sparingly; in times of famine or cold only. So, TBM's do you stick to this or have you been lying to the Bishop when he asks about your WoW compliance?
i think it is important that yo uunderstand the WoW is "a principle with promise," initially given "not by commandment or constraint" Verses 2 and 3
The church maintains the notion of "sparingly" but the Bishop and I seldom, if ever, discuss what "sparingly" means to me or to him. The idea that anyone lies is silly, but certainly everyone struggles at times to adhere to it. The WoW encourages us each to "do better" and it is not up to the Bishop or You to dictate any person's habits - the principle is that the Lord will bring revelation to those who are in need of it.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
subgenius wrote: it is not up to the Bishop or You to dictate any person's habits...
PrickKicker: I used to be a Narrow minded, short sighted, Lying, Racist, Homophobic, Pious, Moron. But they were all behavioral traits that I had learnt through Mormonism.
Drifting wrote:So, the Church has not, officially, amended or reinterpreted the principle about eating meat sparingly; in times of famine or cold only. So, TBM's do you stick to this or have you been lying to the Bishop when he asks about your WoW compliance?
i think it is important that yo uunderstand the WoW is "a principle with promise," initially given "not by commandment or constraint" Verses 2 and 3
The church maintains the notion of "sparingly" but the Bishop and I seldom, if ever, discuss what "sparingly" means to me or to him. The idea that anyone lies is silly, but certainly everyone struggles at times to adhere to it. The WoW encourages us each to "do better" and it is not up to the Bishop or You to dictate any person's habits - the principle is that the Lord will bring revelation to those who are in need of it.
What does the notion sparingly mean? Why has the Church dropped the 'in times of cold and famine' stipulation? So, as long as the person is trying to do better, the fact that they sometimes smoke, drink and eat a herd a week (with a cappuccino to follow) means they can say 'Yes, I live the WoW' and not be lying?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Drifting wrote:Why has the Church dropped the 'in times of cold and famine' stipulation?
because these modern times with grocery stores and heat pumps would equate "in times of cold and famine" with "never".
Drifting wrote:So, as long as the person is trying to do better, the fact that they sometimes smoke, drink and eat a herd a week (with a cappuccino to follow) means they can say 'Yes, I live the WoW' and not be lying?
Possibly, though you are indulging in a bit of hyperbole ...the notion is that if the person is asked the question the Lord will speak to them as to how they should answer and as to how they did answer...and likewise the listener (interviewer) should receive witness as well, as they are properly prepared and attentive as recommended in the handbook etc.. Is it scientific? no - is it theological? yes
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
Drifting wrote: So, the Church has not, officially, amended or reinterpreted the principle about eating meat sparingly; in times of famine or cold only. So, TBM's do you stick to this or have you been lying to the Bishop when he asks about your WoW compliance?
The church has a habit of ignoring many issues in hopes they will go away. Polygamy and the priesthood ban come to mind. I don't think meat is a big issue, and they do get to decide what they will enforce. It's just interesting that someone who drinks a little wine with meals or green tea, and eats healthy and exercises can be viewed as less worthy then someone who does not drink tea or wine but doesn't exercise and eats horribly and is over weight. It would be nice to see the church focus more on these issues.
