And HE is before ALL things---Jesus

[_Brackite]

Colossians 1:19-20 (NKJV)

19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,
20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

What does it exactly mean that 'all things' will be reconcile to God? Does it mean that all of the angels and all of humankind will be eventually fully reconciled to God?

[_LittleNipper]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Christianity

[_maklelan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Christianity

Oh, good heavens. Wikipedia said it, so it must be true? Please tell me you're not resorting to this nonsense.

[_Brackite]

From mrm.org:

John 1:1-3 tells us that all things (including Lucifer) were made by the Christ who was in the beginning, God. Colossians 1:16 tells us that all things, including things visible and invisible, principalities or powers, were created by the preeminent Jesus Christ, the eternal God. The Bible forcefully declares Lucifer to be a creation of Jesus, not in any way the brother of Jesus.

Including Lucifer???



Colossians 1:15-20 (NASB)

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.


Colossians 1:15-20 (NIV)

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.


If the phrase 'all things' in Colossians 1:16-17 includes Lucifer, then would the phrase 'all things' in Colossians 1:20 also include Lucifer??

[_Brackite]

From Encarta:

Colossians, book of the New Testament. An Epistle, it was written by St. Paul while he was in prison, probably at Rome, sometime between ad55 and 63. Addressed to the Christians of the ancient Phrygian city of Colossae, the Epistle anticipated the conflict that the church would have with Gnosticism. Paul's fundamental concern was to alert the Christians there against an erroneous religious teaching that stressed knowledge (philosophy) rather than faith, advocated a reliance on the worship of angels as the principal means of attaining salvation, and viewed the world as basically evil. The errors described arose from Gnostic influences.

Paul, while not denying angelic mediators, vigorously denounced the worship of angels as a substitute for Christ. He urged instead belief in the crucified and risen Christ, in whose person God is incarnate. Faith in Christ, he maintained, delivers believers from the false wisdom of the world and vain observance. The Epistle concludes with an exhortation to imitate Christ in his life of love and joyous service to God and humankind. The Epistle contains a number of well-known passages, including 1:15-20, on the church as the body of Christ, and 2:12-15, on baptism.

From Biblegateway.com:

1:15–20 Paul breaks into a doxology to the grandeur and glory of Jesus Christ. Many believe Paul is appropriating an early Christian hymn. By pointing to the supremacy of Christ both in creation (vv. 15–17) and in redemption (vv. 18–20), he points out what was missing in the false teaching at Colossae—an adequate view of the person of Christ. By doing this in a kind of hymn, he invites the readers to worship the Son of God.

[_Brackite]

Colossians 1:16-17 (NKJV)

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.



From The Book of Mormon:

Mosiah 3:8:

[8] And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.


Mosiah 5:15:

[15] Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen.


Alma 11:38-39:

[38] Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?

[39] And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last;


Helaman 14:12:

[12] And also that ye might know of the coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and that ye might know of the signs of his coming, to the intent that ye might believe on his name.

[_LittleNipper]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Christianity

Oh, good heavens. Wikipedia said it, so it must be true? Please tell me you're not resorting to this nonsense.

Wikipedia is hardly bias.

[_maklelan]

Wikipedia is hardly bias.

Well, that's nonsense. Wikipedia is for anyone who wants to edit. Ideological topics are fraught with trolls and their biases. I've corrected some pages a dozen times because some uneducated goon is always hiding under the bridge to come out and change the page back to the way he likes it. Some fields don't have that problem (like stats or engineering), but religious studies on Wikipedia are an absolute joke.

[_LittleNipper]

Wikipedia is hardly bias.

Well, that's nonsense. Wikipedia is for anyone who wants to edit. Ideological topics are fraught with trolls and their biases. I've corrected some pages a dozen times because some uneducated goon is always hiding under the bridge to come out and change the page back to the way he likes it. Some fields don't have that problem (like stats or engineering), but religious studies on Wikipedia are an absolute joke.

What I mean is they are not "Christian" or Mormon.

[_maklelan]

What I mean is they are not "Christian" or Mormon.

Wikipedia? The people who write the articles on Christian doctrines are indeed Christians, and usually fundamentalists.