Why maklelan can't win a debate with me

[_Mittens]

maklelan is clueless as normal when it comes to the Trinity Ontologically is another word he has no understanding of the meaning

There were two major Latin words involved. The first is substantia, Although the word was idiomatically to mean “goods” or “property” and in a legal sense to denote “ that to which two or more parties could share legal claim,” there never was never much doubt as to what the Church Fathers intended when using substantia was simply the being of God. Thus to say , with the Latin orthodox theologians, that Father,Son, and Spirit were consubstantialis was to say that they shared the same basic “thing” or “what” that they were: namely, they were God.


Godhead, God, substance Essence and Being all synonyms

could maklelan produce a creed or document that says the Trinity believe God the Father and Jesus are same person from Trinitarian source

[_Bazooka]

Mittens, can you find anyone (other than you) that thinks you're 'winning'?

[_maklelan]

maklelan is clueless as normal when it comes to the Trinity Ontologically is another word he has no understanding of the meaning

There were two major Latin words involved.

Another copy and paste job from CARM.

The first is substantia, Although the word was idiomatically to mean “goods” or “property” and in a legal sense to denote “ that to which two or more parties could share legal claim,” there never was never much doubt as to what the Church Fathers intended when using substantia was simply the being of God. Thus to say , with the Latin orthodox theologians, that Father,Son, and Spirit were consubstantialis was to say that they shared the same basic “thing” or “what” that they were: namely, they were God.

Godhead, God, substance Essence and Being all synonyms

could maklelan produce a creed or document that says the Trinity believe God the Father and Jesus are same person from Trinitarian source

As I've pointed out already, I have never once promoted that misrepresentation of the concept of the Trinity. This post has done absolutely nothing to further our discussion, but it does show that you've either completely ignored my comments or do not understand them.

[_Mittens]

maklelan "mak attack" hasn't produced one document that's Pro-Trinitarian that would say we believe God the Father and Jesus are same person. Something The Way International and United Pentecostal "Jesus Only" teach since there Modalists and not Trinitarians . Mak has got his misinformation from other clueless leaders like these.

In Marvelous Work and A Wonder, Le Grand Richards

Page 18 under the heading John's Testimony of the Personality of God

Says "This accords also with the report of John's baptism of Jesus:
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and £He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Here each of the three members of the Godhead are distinctly and separately mentioned; (1) Jesus coming up out of the water; (2) the Holy Ghost descending like a dove; (3) the voice of the Father from heaven expressing his love and approval of his beloved Son. How could one possibly believe these three to be one person without body or form ?


President Gordon B. Hinckley explained why he also could not believe in the Trinity: The world wrestles with the question of who God is, and in what form He is found. Some say that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one. I wonder how they ever arrive at that. How could Jesus have prayed to Himself when he uttered the Lord's Prayer? How could He have net with Himself when He was on the Mount of Transfiguration? No. He is a separate being. God, our Father, is one. Jesus Christ is two. The Holy Ghost is three. And these three are united in purpose and in working together to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.' ONE GOD The above comments are clearly antithetical

James Talmage states: "This [the Trinity] cannot rationally be construed to mean that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are one in substance and person" (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.40)

[The Trinity does say One Substance but not One person. Here James Talmage tells another big whopper like Jeffrey Hollands, must be using same play book.]

http://thetruthaboutmormonism-creeksalm ... lling.html



1. Hugh B. Brown, The Abundant Life, p.313


Surely this was not ventriloquism where Christ was speaking to and of himself. It was the Father introducing His Son. In this case, the members of the Holy Trinity manifested themselves, each in a different way, and each was distinct from the others. A similar event occurred on the Mount of Transfiguration when members of the Godhead were distinguished in the presence of Moses and Elias, and Peter, James, and John.

Notice how maklelan believes these blind guides that build a straw man from the Trinity formula and say we believe there the same person.

[_maklelan]

maklelan "mak attack" hasn't produced one document that's Pro-Trinitarian that would say we believe God the Father and Jesus are same person.

Because that's nonsense. I don't think that is what the Trinity is or ever has been. I have always been well aware of the concept of three persons within one being. This is now the third time I've directly told you that that's not an argument I'm making. This is the very definition of a strawman, and you're still making it after being twice told that I have never made any such argument.

Something The Way International and United Pentecostal "Jesus Only" teach since there Modalists and not Trinitarians . Mak has got his misinformation from other clueless leaders like these.

What information? I've never in my life thought or argued that the Trinity means God the Father and Jesus are the same person.

Notice how maklelan believes these blind guides that build a straw man from the Trinity formula and say we believe there the same person.

I believe absolutely no such thing, and I have never believed it. Where are you getting this idea that I promote that understanding of the Trinity?

[_Mittens]

So you disagree with all these hi-ranking Mormons teaching the Trinity teaches the Father and Son are same person that I just posted is, that what you're saying

[_maklelan]

So you disagree with all these hi-ranking Mormons teaching the Trinity teaches the Father and Son are same person that I just posted is, that what you're saying

Of course I do. How many times do I have to tell you this before you shut your mouth and listen?

[_Mittens]

So do you think these leaders are lying or just trying to misinform ?

[_maklelan]

So do you think these leaders are lying or just trying to misinform ?

I think they're just misinformed themselves. What about you? Are you lying, trying to misinformed, or just misinformed yourself? You've been unable to engage a single one of my arguments, and the only thing for which you have actually argued turns out to be a silly misunderstanding on your part.

[_Mittens]

http://www.mormoninfographics.com/

Mormons down to the T