Spirituality or just emotion...?

[_Themis]

How can we know anything?

If you mean in an absolute way, then yes. She said they knew, so I was asking how they know.

Most of what we say we know we have not learned first hand. We learn most of what we know from others. We tend to trust others in certain areas and we have built a structure of institutions so that we may have some assurance that we what some groups says is something we should believe.

Sure we trust others. We can try to check things for ourselves and see if they are what they say they are. This is true with religious claims from people like Joseph Smith.

But most of these groups we grew up with and have trusted our forefathers in their determination of trust.

We tend to trust those we know the best, even though our forefathers have had many different beliefs.

Some trust religious groups to provide answers and others trust government.

This is not a one or the other choice here. One can trust both in different areas, but one can try to confirm things for themselves

Many trust science as a group to provide answers as well. But in almost every case and from all sources first hand knowledge is lacking.

I know from your posting you have little knowledge in this area. The one thing that is so nice about science is that one can learn and confirm for themselves. I wish you would do this.

The exception to this is when the Holy Ghost comes into your soul and lets you know that your spirit is real and there is another Spirit as well.

This is your belief, but how do you know that your interpretation is correct and others wrong. None of us know what the body capable of, and that does not exhaust all other possibilities.

This is why the spiritual person is so strong in their belief. It is as if their belief transcends logic or reason. Knowledge obtained by first hand experience is very powerful.

Spiritual people can be found with many different beliefs, including agnostics and atheists. Many of them seek out these expereinces even though they do not attribute them to any divine being. The spiritual experience usually has strong emotions with them which may be the biggest factor in a person maintaining their particular interpretation or meaning they have attached to the expereince.

You can call the spiritual experience anything you wish. A label does not change what it is.

I doubt you know what I think about them.

They deny the existence of the unseen so have no communication with it. This is normal and is the result of the flesh being weak.

Many here had LDS beliefs and interpretations of their spiritual expereinces just as you do now. It's not denying them, but re-evaluating them and recognizing that they may just be created by ourselves. You or I do not know what all our bodies are capable of.

Since I am alone and do not have the backing of many men behind me I will be discounted not by what I say but by the lack of worldly support. For someone who has cast off the world I know well that the world hates me. But I am not the first that the world has hated.

I don't hate you, and most here certainly don't. We may disagree on certain things, but no one agrees 100% with others.

[_Franktalk]

I know from your posting you have little knowledge in this area. The one thing that is so nice about science is that one can learn and confirm for themselves. I wish you would do this.

You assume this because it is easy to assume that someone just does not know about science if their views differ from yours. You assume that if someone just knew enough science that they would fall in line. That is just foolishness.

[_Themis]

I know from your posting you have little knowledge in this area. The one thing that is so nice about science is that one can learn and confirm for themselves. I wish you would do this.

You assume this because it is easy to assume that someone just does not know about science if their views differ from yours. You assume that if someone just knew enough science that they would fall in line. That is just foolishness.

I based it on your posts which showed a major lack of understanding. That does not mean everyone who has a good understanding is not religious, but then you are the one guilty of making assumptions.

[_Franktalk]

I based it on your posts which showed a major lack of understanding. That does not mean everyone who has a good understanding is not religious, but then you are the one guilty of making assumptions.

I think that you are confusing agreement with understanding. I can understand what science believes without believing the conclusions or accepting the assumptions made in many areas. Why is it so important to you that I accept your views? Why is it that people who have taken the science pill think that all others should take it as well? I reject much of what science says about the past. I have been clear as to why.

[_Themis]

I think that you are confusing agreement with understanding.

Not at all.

I can understand what science believes without believing the conclusions or accepting the assumptions made in many areas.

Understanding what conclusions science is not the same as understanding why a conclusion is accepted. Conclusions in science are also not absolute, and will change with evidence over time. You clearly lack understanding of the why.

Why is it so important to you that I accept your views?

I have not expressed any views on scientific claims here.

Why is it that people who have taken the science pill think that all others should take it as well?

This is quite telling of the bias you have before you even can understand the why. You cannot hope to come to how things are with such bias to begin with. This is how apologia works.

I reject much of what science says about the past. I have been clear as to why.

The only why is because you don't like what they are saying. Instead of learning actual science you go to sites that support what you want to believe and then end up using pseudoscience.

[_sheryl]

And how do they know this?

Because Masters never fall asleep.

Not only do they not sleep at night - remaining fully aware and conscious when their body falls to sleep - they do not lose consciousness at the death of their body, remaining fully awake and aware as the body dies, moving through the realms of creation with free will and coming back into incarnation as a baby, with full remembrance of the choice to do so, and maintaining memory of what transpired before coming into the new body to create a new personality.

These rare souls in this world are thus Masters, typically re-connecting with their lineage as a small child - having chosen an incarnation or family into which thy were born making such a connection possible - coming under the tutelage of the present Master of the lineage, to be trained to take over when that Master dies. In this way, the wisdom traditions or true lineages are sustained from generation to generation.

Because Masters never lose consciousness or awareness in sleep or death, moving according to their free will (through all states of consciousness) and sacred compassion for those still sleeping, they know more than we sleepers could possibly imagine.

Shalom,

Sheryl

[_Themis]

Because Masters never fall asleep.

Not only do they not sleep at night - remaining fully aware and conscious when their body falls to sleep - they do not lose consciousness at the death of their body, remaining fully awake and aware as the body dies, moving through the realms of creation with free will and coming back into incarnation as a baby, with full remembrance of the choice to do so, and maintaining memory of what transpired before coming into the new body to create a new personality.

These rare souls in this world are thus Masters, typically re-connecting with their lineage as a small child - having chosen an incarnation or family into which thy were born making such a connection possible - coming under the tutelage of the present Master of the lineage, to be trained to take over when that Master dies. In this way, the wisdom traditions or true lineages are sustained from generation to generation.

Because Masters never lose consciousness or awareness in sleep or death, moving according to their free will (through all states of consciousness) and sacred compassion for those still sleeping, they know more than we sleepers could possibly imagine.

Shalom,

Sheryl

You classified yourself as a sleeper, so how do you know what they say is accurate?

[_sheryl]

You classified yourself as a sleeper, so how do you know what they say is accurate?

Becoming awake is a process. Of healing, integration of the personality, receiving moments of wakefulness by Grace, until it can become fully awake.

I have had moments of being awake. But then falling back to sleep.

Through a Master we can be gifted with moments of greater and greater wakefulness, which is the intent of a Master, to heal and then bestow wakefulness on a soul, a little at a time until they fully awaken.

Thus Masters do not tell us how things are, or what truth is, they show us. Such as we see in scripture. Jesus taught parables to the sleepers, to those ready to be awaken, he showed them.

To those fully asleep demanding proof, he sent them on their way. Those with faith though, with hunger and thirst to see and know what seems impossible to the human intellect, they received gifts of seeing or wakefulness.

It is still the same today.

Shalom!

Sheryl

[_Themis]

Becoming awake is a process. Of healing, integration of the personality, receiving moments of wakefulness by Grace, until it can become fully awake.

I have had moments of being awake. But then falling back to sleep.

I know what it means to be awake while sleeping, or better put being aware that one is asleep, but I am not sure this is what you mean.

Thus Masters do not tell us how things are, or what truth is, they show us. Such as we see in scripture. Jesus taught parables to the sleepers, to those ready to be awaken, he showed them.

I believed for many years, and I think I understand what the New Testament parables mean 6then and now.

To those fully asleep demanding proof, he sent them on their way.

What proof are you talking about?

Those with faith though, with hunger and thirst to see and know what seems impossible to the human intellect, they received gifts of seeing or wakefulness.

I have faith in a number of things. Which faith are you referring to? Which beliefs do you think people should have faith in and why, and are there any beliefs that you think people should not have faith in but seek evidence first before believing or having faith?

Also again, how do you know what they say is accurate?

[_sheryl]

I know what it means to be awake while sleeping, or better put being aware that one is asleep, but I am not sure this is what you mean.

Those who are fully awake are awake and aware outside of the dreams that arise. They watch dreams arise and can enter into them as one might walk into a room in the physical, and interact in the dream with the characters of the dream, all the while knowing that dreams are only temporary phenomenon. They leave a dream according to their desire, and can watch the dream fall back into the place from which it arose.

Somewhere in the process, as we awaken in our dreams, we might realize in the middle of a dream that it is not real, that we are dreaming and be able to physically wake up, or simply leave the dream causing the dream to dissolve.

The dreams from those fully asleep arise from the subconscious, the person most often being a 'victim' of their dreams, thinking they are real. And struggle in the dream or enjoy the dream just as they would physical life.

Those who are awakening soon see that the physical world is also like a dream arising, for all that actually exists is the present moment. The past is like a dream, as is the future. And in the liberation process, we wake up in the physical world, no longer being a 'victim' of what arises, but able to live fully according to our free will.

I believed for many years, and I think I understand what the New Testament parables mean 6then and now.

What proof are you talking about?

Those who do not have the faith to seek to see for themselves, demand that others prove the existence of a this greater reality that they speak of witnessing, often asking for signs of the miracles being claimed etc. If one cannot see for themselves, they will ask others who can see to prove what they claim to see.

I have faith in a number of things. Which faith are you referring to? Which beliefs do you think people should have faith in and why, and are there any beliefs that you think people should not have faith in but seek evidence first before believing or having faith?

Again, faith in a greater reality than what they presently experience, a faith that compels them to experience it themselves.

Also again, how do you know what they say is accurate?

Because as I awaken, what I see and experience is just what those fully awake speak of in regards to this greater reality. As our soul evolves, it reaches a point where it knows there is more - an inner knowing of more than what is experienced compels them to seek to see and experience more. Faith is belief in the experience not yet had, having had seen enough, know there is more.

It is like the blind man in the cave. The seeing man comes into the cave and tells them about the sun and though still blind they allow the seeing man to guide them outside of the cave, and there while still blind and not able to see the sun for themselves, they feel its warmth, just as the seeing man described, and then believe, and in faith seek to have their eyes opened so that they might see the source of warmth for themselves.

Those in the cave demanding proof will not allow the seeing man to guide them outside of the cave, but demand that the seeing man bring proof of the sun into the cave.

May all beings hunger for the sun they have felt but not yet seen!

Sheryl