Fulfilled Prophecy?

[_Tobin]

A prophet is merely a messenger. Pointing out the weaknesses and failings of the messenger has nothing to do with the message. If the message is truly from God, we should accept it. If it isn't, then we are under no obligation to believe the message or messenger was sent from God.

Can you name a message that an LDS prophet has received from God?

That there is a God.

[_Quasimodo]

A prophet is merely a messenger. Pointing out the weaknesses and failings of the messenger has nothing to do with the message. If the message is truly from God, we should accept it. If it isn't, then we are under no obligation to believe the message or messenger was sent from God.

And who determines if it is a message from God or just horse biscuits made up by the supposed prophet?

[_grindael]

Basically, they should be the "smartest" people on the planet because they are Mormon prophets. They should know everything there is to know about everything (science, philosophy, the scriptures, the gospel, God and so on). They wouldn't have their own biases, preconceptions, lack of knowledge, disinterest, weaknesses, and so on to prevent them from fully understanding or comprehending the truth.

Now, where would anyone get such ideas about Mormon “prophets”? Perhaps from Mormon “prophets”? Here is one Mormon “prophet” who told the world,

Sometimes there are those who feel their earthly knowledge on a certain subject is superior to the heavenly knowledge which God gives to His prophet on the same subject. They feel the prophet must have the same earthly credentials or training which they have had before they will accept anything the prophet has to say that might contradict their earthly schooling. How much earthly schooling did Joseph Smith have? Yet he gave revelations on all kinds of subjects. We haven’t yet had a prophet who earned a doctorate in any subject, but as someone said, “A prophet may not have his Ph.D. but he certainly has his LDS.” We encourage earthly knowledge in many areas, but remember, [b]if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet, and you’ll be blessed and time will vindicate you.[/b]

The prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the Lord” to give us scripture.

Sometimes there are those who haggle over words. They might say the prophet gave us counsel but that we are not obligated to follow it unless he says it is a commandment. But the Lord says of the Prophet Joseph, “Thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you” (D&C 21:4; italics added).

And speaking of taking counsel from the prophet, in D&C 108:1, the Lord states: “Verily thus saith the Lord unto you, my servant Lyman: Your sins are forgiven you, because you have obeyed my voice in coming up hither this morning to receive counsel of him whom I have appointed”.

Said Brigham Young, “I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture” (Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. [London: Latter-day Saints’ Book Depot], 13:95).

The learned [and many Mormons] may feel the prophet is only inspired when he agrees with them, otherwise the prophet is just giving his opinion—speaking as a man. The rich may feel they have no need to take counsel of a lowly prophet.” (Benson, 14 Fundamentals)

It is ridiculous to claim that critics expect Mormon “prophets” to know everything. We don't. These guys have all the time in the world to speculate, give opinions and blather about whatever they choose. But they aren’t doing this in private, (where it makes much more sense) they are publishing their teachings to the world, and standing before the world AS PROPHETS and saying that their words are scripture, because they have the Mormon “Holy Ghost”. (and even that's in their scripture) It is ludicrous to believe that these guys aren’t aware of the difference between speaking with and without it (unless they are false prophets – See Moses Thatcher’s statement above). The D&C says "ALL THEIR WORDS". It doesn't qualify the statement, and neither does Benson. Maybe more editing of the D&C is in order.

This line of reasoning assumes that these men know a conference is coming, (or are writing a book) think about what they are going to say, know the gravity of the situation, know that the world is going to analyze their statements, and yet… and yet they still spout off crazy teachings that contradict what the Bible says, and what other “prophets” in their own church have said. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Notice that Benson quotes Young’s line about what he preached was “scripture”. I wonder why? And I wonder why many Mormons today don’t believe it like Benson did. Notice Benson also refutes “they wouldn’t have had their own biases…. etc. with,

“if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet, and you’ll be blessed and time will vindicate you.”

Yes, I wonder where people get these crazy ideas about what Mormon “prophets” are - from.

[_Tobin]

A prophet is merely a messenger. Pointing out the weaknesses and failings of the messenger has nothing to do with the message. If the message is truly from God, we should accept it. If it isn't, then we are under no obligation to believe the message or messenger was sent from God.

And who determines if it is a message from God or just horse biscuits made up by the supposed prophet?

Amazingly, God leaves that up to us. The only purpose for a prophet is to reveal the truth and encourage us to act on it. It is entirely up to us to decide whether we believe them or not.

[_Tobin]

...

Hugs, and I still don't take a word you say seriously. You sure you wouldn't like to be baptized and have some jello salad instead?

[_just me]

That there is a God.

Wow. That is pretty vague an unvarifiable. Not unique at.all.

[_Tobin]

That there is a God.

Wow. That is pretty vague an unvarifiable. Not unique at.all.

I didn't know the truth had to be unique to be true.

[_grindael]

And just how did you determine that? Not any truth what-so-ever huh? So, I'll have to do is produce one truthful statement and your world comes crashing down?

I read what they taught and wrote. It was easy, I learned to read, and comprehend, and what they said contradicted the Bible, what Jesus said, and many things they said didn't come to pass like they said they would.

19 I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”

21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed. (Deuteronomy 18 NIV)

Since every Mormon "prophet" had affirmed all the other "prophets" before him, and many things that they said that were false, they too are false prophets.

[Guest]

I'm not writing for you Tobin. Your mind appears to be only jello, and like I said at the start, I don't care a lick if you take me seriously or not. But if it makes you feel more secure to keep repeating it, by all means knock yourself out.

[_Tobin]

And just how did you determine that? Not any truth what-so-ever huh? So, I'll have to do is produce one truthful statement and your world comes crashing down?

Let's try to stay on topic shall we?
What part of the following do you earnestly disagree with and why?

With all my heart and the fervency of my soul, I lift up my voice in testimony as a special witness and declare that God does live. Jesus is His Son, the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh. He is our Redeemer; He is our Mediator with the Father. He it was who died on the cross to atone for our sins. He became the firstfruits of the Resurrection. Because He died, all shall live again. ‘Oh, sweet the joy this sentence gives: “I know that my Redeemer lives!” ’ May the whole world know it and live by that knowledge, I humbly pray, in the name of Jesus Christ, the Lord and Savior, amen.

Thomas S Monson