Large numbers of members apostatizing - says Marlin K Jensen

[_Franktalk]

I guess your position is that most people including active members have not had any communication from the HG.

Quite the leap from communicating with the Holy Ghost to walking in the spirit. Of course to you they may seem the same.

[_Themis]

I guess your position is that most people including active members have not had any communication from the HG.

Quite the leap from communicating with the Holy Ghost to walking in the spirit. Of course to you they may seem the same.

I can only go on what you say. You never did define what you think it means to walk in the spirit. You also said there was nothing factually wrong with this statement

What we do see is no real agreement on what the spiritual experience is revealing about the world around us. It is a very unreliable method, prone to giving people what they want, or interpreting the expereince the way they want or have been taught to do.

If the spiritual experience is so unreliable why should one accept ones interpretation of it over other physical evidence that is far more reliable?

[_Runtu]

If the spiritual experience is so unreliable why should one accept ones interpretation of it over other physical evidence that is far more reliable?

For some reason, you reminded me of Chico Marx's question: "Who ya gonna believe? Me or your own eyes?"

[_Samantabhadra]

Why should anyone believe LDS claims or Catholicism, Wicca, etc? Especially if the evidnece suggests that LDS claims are not true.

Again, just because the truth-claims of LDS are demonstrably false does not mean that the truth claims of other religions are demonstrably false, at least not in the same way (i.e. as a matter of the physical historical record). There is a big difference between claiming e.g. that Moses saw a burning bush or that Mary gave birth without ever having had intercourse--which are unverifiable claims--and claiming that there was a continent-spanning Mesoamerican civilization of Semitic origin/that the dark figure in Facsimile 3 is anyone other than Anubis, which are verifiably false claims. Apples and oranges.

[_Themis]

Why should anyone believe LDS claims or Catholicism, Wicca, etc? Especially if the evidnece suggests that LDS claims are not true.

Again, just because the truth-claims of LDS are demonstrably false does not mean that the truth claims of other religions are demonstrably false, at least not in the same way (i.e. as a matter of the physical historical record). There is a big difference between claiming e.g. that Moses saw a burning bush or that Mary gave birth without ever having had intercourse--which are unverifiable claims--and claiming that there was a continent-spanning Mesoamerican civilization of Semitic origin/that the dark figure in Facsimile 3 is anyone other than Anubis, which are verifiably false claims. Apples and oranges.

It came out a little wrong. I did not mean to say that evidence against LDS claims also proves others religious claims false.

[_Samantabhadra]

It came out a little wrong. I did not mean to say that evidence against LDS claims also proves others religious claims false.

I was pretty sure that's what you meant... just wanted to clarify that particular issue.

Carry on!

[_Buffalo]

Buffalo,

Psa 90:4 A thousand years in your sight
are like a day that has just gone by,
or like a watch in the night.

and

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

How could I ever have linked these two verses. It is so obvious that a thousand years and a day mentioned in both must not be at all what they meant.

But I am still not sure what they mean. I always took them to say a thousand years is like a day to the Lord. Please let me know what they do mean.

/sarc

I thank God daily that He removed my blinders. I to used to be just like you.

You're prooftexting, Frank. Read it in context and it's just talking about Yahweh's long-term perspective as an immortal. To use it to say that a specific prophesy about Jesus returning within one generation can be read as a long long long time is dishonest.

1 Lord, you have been our dwelling place
throughout all generations.
2 Before the mountains were born
or you brought forth the whole world,
from everlasting to everlasting you are God.
3 You turn people back to dust,
saying, “Return to dust, you mortals.”
4 A thousand years in your sight
are like a day that has just gone by,
or like a watch in the night.
5 Yet you sweep people away in the sleep of death—
they are like the new grass of the morning:
6 In the morning it springs up new,
but by evening it is dry and withered.

[_Franktalk]

You're prooftexting, Frank. Read it in context and it's just talking about Yahweh's long-term perspective as an immortal. To use it to say that a specific prophesy about Jesus returning within one generation can be read as a long long long time is dishonest.

Ah yes the dishonest remark. You see I look at all of scripture as an integrated message that also contains truths within the verses. I also see many verses as layered with current and future application. I also see a spiritual meaning as well as a surface meaning. But in all cases the message is not there if you place the world as your lens to see the scripture. It becomes just a pile of words that mean little.

Love God and let go of this world if you wish to see what it really says. I will tell you that large parts of scripture are designed to have the wise of this world stumble and fall. So tell me Buffalo do you love God and have you let go of this world? If not then scripture tells us all how you will read it.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Your attempt to use scripture as a weapon against a believing Christian is duly noted. I have said a prayer for you asking for your sins to be forgiven. I also asked that your eyes would be opened. May God bless you and keep you well until your path turns to Him.

[_Buffalo]

You're prooftexting, Frank. Read it in context and it's just talking about Yahweh's long-term perspective as an immortal. To use it to say that a specific prophesy about Jesus returning within one generation can be read as a long long long time is dishonest.

Ah yes the dishonest remark. You see I look at all of scripture as an integrated message that also contains truths within the verses. I also see many verses as layered with current and future application. I also see a spiritual meaning as well as a surface meaning. But in all cases the message is not there if you place the world as your lens to see the scripture. It becomes just a pile of words that mean little.

Love God and let go of this world if you wish to see what it really says. I will tell you that large parts of scripture are designed to have the wise of this world stumble and fall. So tell me Buffalo do you love God and have you let go of this world? If not then scripture tells us all how you will read it.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Your attempt to use scripture as a weapon against a believing Christian is duly noted. I have said a prayer for you asking for your sins to be forgiven. I also asked that your eyes would be opened. May God bless you and keep you well until your path turns to Him.

But the problem is the scriptures don't contain one integrated message, but a variety of viewpoints that often contradict one another. You're reading theology into the scriptures instead of letting them speak for themselves.

[_bcuzbcuz]

Your attempt to use scripture as a weapon against a believing Christian is duly noted. I have said a prayer for you asking for your sins to be forgiven. I also asked that your eyes would be opened. May God bless you and keep you well until your path turns to Him.

Your attempt to use scripture as a weapon against a non-believing un-christian has been duly noted. May your sins be forgiven you. And I would hope that one days the veil will fall from your eyes.......but that's like p.....ing in the wind.

Your ability to un-reason your way through every argument where you supposedly peal each scripture verse, like an onion, to see things no one else can see is indeed remarkable. But it is merely you reading into scripture that which isn't there. It is a house of cards so dependent upon a glue of phantom voices that only a crushing tragedy, that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy, will cause the cards to tumble. Good luck.