Charitable Contributions - to whom now?

[_JAK]

Charity said without thinking:
For myself, I trust in the layers of accountability. It isn't one person with his fingers in the pocketbook.

We(ll), I certainly, expect that the money will be used in much better ways than the Red Cross or Salvation Army or any other charity you can name would use it. I know of the ways in which money and goods are misused by the Red Cross. I won't give anything to them but blood.

Ok Charity, that's enough. You don't know what you're blubbering about. The Mormon church donates a great deal of funds and supplies to the Red Cross. They work conjointly on many humanitarian fronts. What's the difference? OPEN BOOKS.

Come now, Inconceivable, don't start the keyboard before your mind is in gear. The Church has quite a bit of control over what happens with their donations to Red Cross, Catholic charities, etc. that we don't have as individuals writing out checks. Which is why I donate to the Humanitarian effort.

Maybe you don't live on the West Coast and the news didn't get to you. But out here there was a big scandal with the Red Cross where people thought they were giving money to help Katrina victims and it was being diverted to local Red Cross projects. That is just one example.

Of course, you can donate to any cause you want. I prefer to know that when I donate, the money will go to the purpose designated.

charity stated:
Maybe you don't live on the West Coast and the news didn't get to you. But out here there was a big scandal with the Red Cross where people thought they were giving money to help Katrina victims and it was being diverted to local Red Cross projects. That is just one example.

Of course, you (Inconceivable) can donate to any cause you want. I prefer to know that when I donate, the money will go to the purpose designated.

As a matter of point, you don’t really know where the money goes. If you give money to any organization (a church), the organization decides both what to do with the money and what to tell you they did with the money.

You do not have the capacity to access the detail of what was done with your contribution.

JAK

[_charity]

Come now, Inconceivable, don't start the keyboard before your mind is in gear. The Church has quite a bit of control over what happens with their donations to Red Cross, Catholic charities, etc. that we don't have as individuals writing out checks. Which is why I donate to the Humanitarian effort.

How do you know this?

I read the Deseret News. It is public. You can read it, too, if you want to.

Maybe you don't live on the West Coast and the news didn't get to you. But out here there was a big scandal with the Red Cross where people thought they were giving money to help Katrina victims and it was being diverted to local Red Cross projects. That is just one example.

How do you know this? (hint - full disclosure)

I read the Oregonian Newspaper. You can, too.

Of course, you can donate to any cause you want. I prefer to know that when I donate, the money will go to the purpose designated.

How do you know your money is going to the purpose designated?

Because I saw the news reports of the plane actually landing in Kosovo with relief supplies. I know the man who used to be in charge of the Humanitarian Effort. He has since retired. I doubt that things have changed all that much in the time since he retired.

There is accountabliity. The auditor report is read every 6 months to the general membership.

So what? It's an internal audit by employees paid by the church. Would you be ok with public companies simply reporting their financials that were audited internally by their own employees? Or do you feel more comfortable knowing that an independent 3rd party looked at the financials?

It is an independent department. It isn't one auditor. You have to the world's most fanatic conspiracy theorist to think that 65 people are all in on some kind of gigantic cover up.

[_Jason Bourne]

I do not suffer the 10% protection money I used to faithfully send to the church. It never dawned on me that even teaching this concept on my mission this money was primarilly blown to build and maintain "chapels, temples and schools" - mainly edifices erected for those that already had a roof over their head and food to eat.

This amazes me. Why do you object to a Church maintaining structures for its members to worship at? You don't think that all Church's have a need for this? One advantage the LDS Church has is it does not pay a local minister or house them. So the cost of running local Churches, from a sheer economic stand point, is less then most other religions. Religions are organizations that have infrastructure to maintain. Why do you find this so hideous?

Peeling off such a swath of my treasure made it very difficult to alocate time or money for those that really needed me. At times I came off as being "cheap" because there was literally nothing left at the end of the month.

Since you were/are used to tithing why not continue to give that same amount to other causes you now deem more worthy? Of increase what you give the Fast Offering fund. That goes directly to local members in need with no overhead at all. Or the Church humanitarian fund.

Shame on the Mormon church for deluding me into thinking that air conditioners and comfortable chairs took precidence over even one sick or starving child.

Shame on you for thinking it did when it did not. The Church certainly promotes and does these things. This is a cheap shot. If you could not figure it out shame on you.

so enough whining...

Thanks. It is tiresome.

Although I've spent the last few years only donating to the "Church Humanitarian Fund" (ie. maybe the Red Cross), what organizations are you familiar with that have the integrity and honor to disclose their expenditures?

I am a firm believer that even though I have little excess, I have plenty to share with those that need primary care such as food, clothing and shelter. It just pleases and settles me to know that someone out there is receiving love in the form of a blanket or a loaf of bread.

World Vision, Feed the Children and even the Red Cross appear to be effective organizantions for calling down blessings for those in need. Has anyone had experience with these or others that you might recommend?

There is not shortage out there. What causes do you like? What is important to you. I am a cancer survivor so I like to donate to groups that fight cancer. I worry about all the pain in the world. There is a small NFP I know of called Reach the Children. I know the person who founded it. He is LDS. Not sure if that is an issue for you. But he was very successful as an executive. In his mid 40's he went to Africa with his daughter's high school class on a humanitarian effort. He was so touched by the needs that he quit his job, put all his money but for enough to provide him a modest income ans started this organization. Since they are small they need lots of support.

http://www.reachthechildren.org/

[_Jason Bourne]

I've always been of the opinion that charities are a good concept in theory, but not in practice. Far too much of the money goes towards administrative costs, and little to any actual work.

Depending on what you mean by too much I think this is simply not true. Many charity groups keep admin expenses at less then 20% and some even less then 10%.

[_Jason Bourne]

My responses in bold.

charity stated:
I can see what you are saying about the lack of publication of financial records. But it doesn't matter. Those who are giving donattions (donations) and tithing don't care, and anyone who might care doesn't have to donate. Perfect plan.

Yes it matters. Institutions have a responsibility to be accountable. Otherwise, they can take money, keep it for their own selfish reasons or misuse it for selfish reasons. If they claim to be using the money for helping the poor for example, they should be able to show that they are helping the poor.

I see the demonstration of that all the time. The Church gave a couple of million dollars to Catholic Charities. I was watching TV in my own hometown in the Pacific Northwest one evening. One of our local reporters had gone to Kosovo when there was a big refuge problem due to the fighting there. His report to the folks back home was about the very first planeload of supplies to get to the refuges. "From the Mormon Church in Salt Lake City," he reported. If you aren't seeing where the Humanitarian effort is being given, you aren't looking very hard.

It may be that those giving “don’t care.” However, they ought to care. Such lack of accountability is an invitation to misuse of money and no one will know what that misuse is. It means no one is accountable for the money.

There is accountabliity. The auditor report is read every 6 months to the general membership. You want to see nickles and dimes. That is what does not matter.

Suppose they use it to build a gambling casino? Is that O.K.? I suspect most who give money to a church organization would not like the idea that they were supporting gambling, or prostitution, or liquor sales. Yet, with no accountability, money might easily be use for just such purposes. It might build excessive and extravagant homes (plural) for deceptive gatherers of the money under the pretense that money would be used for a different purpose.

For myself, I trust in the layers of accountability. It isn't one person with his fingers in the pocketbook. It is committees, and oversight committees, and it would take a whole lot of people being dishonest, and then bribing the auditors. It just is not a likely scenario. Could it happen? Maybe. Is it likely? Hardly. So I trust what we get in the way of reports.

If, as you say, people “don’t care” how the money is used, perhaps they deserve to have it taken from them and used for purposes which they would oppose -- if they knew how it was being used.That is, they deserve to be duped.

I don't think it isn't that we "don't care" how the money is used. We don't care if we are given nickles and dimes reporting of how it was used. I think we expect that the donations will be used well. We, I certainly, expect that the money will be used in much better ways than the Red Cross or Salvation Army or any other charity you can name would use it. I know of the ways in which money and goods are misused by the Red Cross. I won't give anything to them but blood. And I made a mistake in giving to the Salvaiton Army one time. After years of dropping dollars in their bell ringer's pots, I sent them a check before Christmas one year. Then, armed with my address, in the subsequent years they have spent more money on trying to get me to give them more than I gave them originally. Not very smart.JAK

Charity....PLEASE learn to use the quote function and cut and edit some. Your posts are impossibly difficult to wade through.

[_Who Knows]

Ok charity, I'm done with you on this thread. Your ignorance on these matters is too much. But not only that, you've shown that you're just not willing to listen and learn. Good luck to you and your newspapers.

[_Jason Bourne]

There is accountabliity. The auditor report is read every 6 months to the general membership. You want to see nickles and dimes. That is what does not matter.[/b]

This is not accountability. THis is a rote report given by a Church employee that tells us absolutly nothing. Given at any other organizations meeting where such reports are given it would be laughable.

For myself, I trust in the layers of accountability. It isn't one person with his fingers in the pocketbook. It is committees, and oversight committees, and it would take a whole lot of people being dishonest, and then bribing the auditors. It just is not a likely scenario. Could it happen? Maybe. Is it likely? Hardly. So I trust what we get in the way of reports. [/b]

So what is the big deal for the Church to give a statement the shows source and use of funds that is audited by independent CPA's?

I don't think it isn't that we "don't care" how the money is used. We don't care if we are given nickles and dimes reporting of how it was used. I think we expect that the donations will be used well. We, I certainly, expect that the money will be used in much better ways than the Red Cross or Salvation Army or any other charity you can name would use it. I know of the ways in which money and goods are misused by the Red Cross. I won't give anything to them but blood. And I made a mistake in giving to the Salvaiton Army one time. After years of dropping dollars in their bell ringer's pots, I sent them a check before Christmas one year. Then, armed with my address, in the subsequent years they have spent more money on trying to get me to give them more than I gave them originally. Not very smart.

The problem here is this Charity. The Church used to disclose more details. In the late 50's and early 60's when Henry Moyle spent way too much on property and buildings the Church was running annual deficits. That is when they closed the books? Why? Well it seems because they did not want members and others to know how bad things were. At the same time, because of the defecits, the Church pushed hard to increase tithes. Maybe they did not want members knowing how badly things were being managed at the same time they pushed for more tithing? This is why open books is the only right thing to do. Even Prophets and Apostles should be accountable.

[_Who Knows]

Good luck Jason. Maybe since you're still a believer in the church (for the most part) charity will listen to you.

[_Jason Bourne]

Come now, Inconceivable, don't start the keyboard before your mind is in gear. The Church has quite a bit of control over what happens with their donations to Red Cross, Catholic charities, etc. that we don't have as individuals writing out checks. Which is why I donate to the Humanitarian effort.

Maybe you don't live on the West Coast and the news didn't get to you. But out here there was a big scandal with the Red Cross where people thought they were giving money to help Katrina victims and it was being diverted to local Red Cross projects. That is just one example.

Of course, you can donate to any cause you want. I prefer to know that when I donate, the money will go to the purpose designated.

Charity has a good point about the red cross but it is going to come back and bite her in a minute. Yes, the Red Cross diverted funds donated to them for various disasters to sources the donor was not initially aware of. For example, the big Tsunami disaster was used by RC to get lots of donations. I donated to them for that cause, specifically. Then I found out that they took half those funds and set them aside for other expenditures. Now I am ok with that for general donations. But they got me money because they said it would be used for the Tsunami aid. So I don't give to them anymore.

Now are you ready Charity.....I was able to find out about the Red Cross activities BECAUSE THEIR BOOKS ARE OPEN!!! I have no such check and balance with what I give to the LDS Church. It is a black hole because they refuse to open the books! So Charity, when you give to the LDS Church you have noe idea where it goes. Based on your own comments about the RC you should not be giving to the LDS Church because you really do not know where it goes.

[_Jason Bourne]

Ok charity, I'm done with you on this thread. Your ignorance on these matters is too much. But not only that, you've shown that you're just not willing to listen and learn. Good luck to you and your newspapers.

AMEN TO THAT!