Runtu wrote:charity wrote:Only on message boards.
I have news for you. There are a lot more out there, and they don't necessarily post on message boards.
Good, then they must be obeying counsel and not publishing their heterodoxy. Which is what they are supposed to do.
Runtu wrote:The fact that this is the TRUE Church means there is truth. Some things are true and some things aren't. The idea that anyone can believe anything they want is the "old sectarian falsehood." When the Lord reveals the truth, we are bound by that truth.
No one is arguing that church members can believe what they want, but there are certain fundamentals, and the historicity of the Book of Mormon is not one of them.
This is where the prophets disagree with you. I prefer to stand on their side.
Runtu wrote: The ultimate judge is the Lord. But eveyrone who comes on this board talks about logic, and information, and common sense. But that seems to apply only to non-LDS or critics? I can't use logic and information and the words of prophets to support a position? I have to say, "Golly gee, Billy Bob, you can believe just ANYTHING you want, and that's fine, because no one gets to say there is any truth, it's all up the air and at some future time, God will judge."
To quote Ronald Reagan, "There you go again." When have I said that you can't use logic and information and the words of prophets to support a position? That's what I expect you to do as a member of the church. And when have I said church members can believe ANYTHING they want? The subject here is whether one can be a faithful member of the church and not believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon.
When I do use logic and information it is swept away as my own personal opinion held by no one else?
And the subject here, the historicity of the Book of Mormon, is analogous to what I said, not accepting the Word of Wisdom, etc.
Here is a piece of information for you. One of the things a person must do to enter the temple is affirm that they sustain the propeht of the Church. And if he has said the Book of Mormon is a historic document, and you don't beleive that, you aren't sustaining the prophet.
Runtu wrote:[
Okay, Shades. Would I say that to my favorite Grandma? Probably not. If she wasn't making sense, I would probably wink at anyone else in the room, and then would pat her hand, and say, "Grandma, is it time for your nap now?"
I'm not going to respond to your sneering. Save it for someone else. It's most unbecoming someone who claims to be a Christian.
And I am really getting tired of your "unbecoming as a Christian" line. I didn't sneer. I was referring to Dr. Shades and his injunction that in this forum we were all supposed to pussyfoot around and act like we were speaking to a grandma. I wouldn't tell Grandma her idea was a crock. That was the point of that.
And if I did "sneer" at you, are you judging me? Isn't God the only person who can judge? Or is this another anti-Mormon/critic tacitc. You judge, but I can't. You can use information and logic, but I can't.
Runtu wrote:Oh, runtu, please stop that. If I were having a private conversation with someone who was expressing their view that the Book of Mormon really wasn't an ancient document, I would not argue. If someone else was in their presence, I would present the information to counter their idea, as that would be my responsibility.
I never say anything to anyone to criticize their activitiy in the Church.
Then why do you say they can't be faithful members if they don't believe in the historicity of the church?[/quote]
I didn't say any specific person. I said that believing in the historicity of the Book of Mormon is ONE of the essentially beliefs as a fully orthodox Mormon.