The Need for Young Men to Serve Missions

[_Inconceivable]

...does your son want to marry a TBM? It looks from what you said that the answer is yes.

No. They both desire to spend their life with someone they love. I know this is something we can both appreciate and see clearly. My point is that their conflict is that the church has told her (and all women young and old) that his commitment to her is temporary and will ultimately lead to unhappiness. It's a confliction brought on by years of indoctrination within a cult that seeks to control every aspect of ones life - if one permits it.

This is where you're very different than TBM's, liz. If you were in her place I'm confident you'd have no reservations jumping ship for a life of genuine happiness. And this is what I do respect about you. You demonstrate that love, family (& relationships), some sanity and peace take precedence over the stupidity that oozes from the Salt Lake suits. You're a rulebreaker and not a Mormon in your heart - ..and so as a woman thinketh, so is she.

(by the way, this is a compliment)

[_Yoda]

...does your son want to marry a TBM? It looks from what you said that the answer is yes.

No. They both desire to spend their life with someone they love. I know this is something we can both appreciate and see clearly. My point is that their conflict is that the church has told her (and all women young and old) that his commitment to her is temporary and will ultimately lead to unhappiness. It's a confliction brought on by years of indoctrination within a cult that seeks to control every aspect of ones life - if one permits it.

This is where you're very different than TBM's, liz. If you were in her place I'm confident you'd have no reservations jumping ship for a life of genuine happiness. And this is what I do respect about you. You demonstrate that love, family (& relationships), some sanity and peace take precedence over the stupidity that oozes from the Salt Lake suits. You're a rulebreaker and not a Mormon in your heart - ..and so as a woman thinketh, so is she.

(by the way, this is a compliment)

Thanks, Inc. I'm sorry if I snapped at you earlier. I guess I'm just frustrated that your kids seem to be stuck in this precarious situation based on a pocket of the US where the LDS culture is so lock-step, they can't see the forest through the trees. It truly is NOT like that everywhere. However, I do know that those pockets exist, which is why I asked if you lived in Utah...LOL

I also lived in Utah for a while, so I definitely understand...I just wasn't aware that Arizona was the same way.

I grew up in California, and even though my parents were very active, I was always taught to respect other religions, choices, to not judge, and, above all else, family Trump's EVERYTHING, INCLUDING THE CHURCH.

When we lived in Utah, I felt like I had gone to a different planet. It was awful. When we relocated to NC, I actually felt like I had come "home" in a lot of ways as far as the Church was concerned. The Church is still considered part of the "mission field" here, so the attitude is very different. People are appreciated for callings; they know how to say "please and thank you". Also, many of the Utah Mormon stigmas just do not apply. Marrying a returned missionary is not the "end-all, be-all" here, even among members. Now, temple marriage is important...and, of course, the young men who serve missions are revered, but choices such as school and the military are also respected.

[_Malcolm]

Although my posts would suggest that I am not in favour of anything LDS,
I would argue that a mission for an 18-19 yearold LDS boy is a good thing,
much like VSO (Voluntary Service Overseas, it is an opportunity to serve others, is "good character building stuff" as my Uni Prof used to say.

My late wife and I had a home with a Granny Extension and we rented this to missionaries for a peppercorn rent. Over five or so years we got to know many missionaries, some leaned on our shoulders, there were homesick Greenies, some painfully shy in teaching strangers, some tearful moments from others,and some just needing to talk to a Mother/Father figure who was not immediately connected to the England London South Mission.

During this time I met the Senator's son who felt pressured to go on a mission just to keep the family in a good light. One who felt that his MP didn't care about him, but who went on to baptise over 19 people. Some
who were Gung Ho and simply got on with the job (these were usually Jocks) as if they were merely selling a product. There was even one who
said,"I don't think the church is a hoax, but if it is, there is no better way to spend your life". We came to love these boys as surrogate parents for a while. Most were fine decent young men who were taking
the love of Christ to people who needed it in their lives. Whether or not
I have come to believe as a man in my sixties, that the LDS church is built on folksy fantasies, does not detract from the fact that these young men were serving Christ, their fellow men and at the same time building self discipline and a work ethic that is a foundation for life.

Although I no longer am LDS. I am still proud of what these young men achieved for themselves and would still welcome them into my home -- though we might disagree on quite a few things these days.

[_Tchild]

But culturally, to reject the call would be a negative social stigma for the rest of their lives.

If he doesn't go (but remains active), he will spend the rest of his life with the stigma of being a less faithful member - from attending Elder's Quorem to participating as a leader in the young men's program.

The pros for me is that the mission may condition them to organize and structure their lives more responsibly.
So, as an ex-member who wants his children to be happy in whatever direction they decide, if they remain in the church they gotta go.

Thoughts?

I would both agree and disagree on the points you have made Inconceivable.

The "stigma" does exist for young men who opt out of a mission (but probably mostly in Utah, or a few high concentration LDS towns or cities), and the biases and judgements against them very real during those first years. However, the stigmas have a duration that lasts usually until the man becomes married. Once married in the temple, or at least actively participating with a female and "worthily" married, the Mormon male who opted out of the mission service is fully integrated into the LDS social hierarchy.

by the way, the same goes for those who have seriously "sinned" sexually. Once married and integrated into the Mormon game plan, old mistakes are long forgotten, moreso when the person is temple endowed and "worthy". This has been my observation growing up in half a dozen spots along the Wasatch front and specifically in Orem-Provo.

The mission is the LDS rite of passage into adulthood, and can be beneficial...for some. The mission can assist in the growing up process, but people can and usually do grow up, mature and take on adult responsabilities in their own due time regardless of missing out on the mission experience.

The mission will absolutely help a person suffer their partners better in marriage (having suffered, almost to insanity, mission companions you could not escape), that and the language skills are probably the strongest motivations to see a child serve a mission.

I loved/hated my mission. I loved everything about my mission....that didn't pertain to Mormonism, knocking doors, mindless time wasting and petty politics and its high pressure numbers game/corporate sales tactics.

I wish the church offered a true service type mission (no proselytizing), just helping, assisting and doing "good works" in the name of God, or Christianity or Mormonism, or whoever wants the credit, I wouldn't care. I would love to see that option, and I would happily pay for my children to really serve the poor and downtrodden without the need to push a self-serving religious agenda.

[_Jason Bourne]

My patriarchal blessing does not specifically state that I would marry a returned missionary. It stated that I would marry someone worthy to take me to the temple.

I have 3 daughters. Not one PB says anything about marrying and RM. Just look for a good worthy young man that can take them to the temple.

If your son is already 21, isn't he too old to go? What is the age limit on young men going? He is going to be older than the majority of young men out in the mission field.

25 or 26 is age limit.

[Guest]

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[_ajax18]

If she's still around at 25 or so, I think she will see things much differently.

Some of that is true whether you go on a mission or not. Most girls I met were fiercely protective of maintaining their college/single life dating lots of men. When they finally did marry, it was because they were nearly 30 and they immediately wanted children. I met a lot of girls who wanted me to like them in my 20s, and I know most of them did not think or care one bit about me or any other guy they sought attention from.

Yes no mission can disqualify a young man from marriage. But to me the biggest factor as to why marriages happen later if they happen at all is the conflict of interest I outlined above." By the time I finally married, I for one had long since said the hell with the BYU attitude and the entire scene. Leaving town and getting back to a local singles ward and even some nonmember girls was really a breath of fresh air. I was valued again, unique, and not just one of 1000s who were exactly like me. The mission became irrelevant. The twist of fate was strange. I think nonmember girls appreciated my mission more than member girls. Go figure. So while marriage did seem to be a big part of the mission going into it. It sure didn't turn out that way.

[_Malcolm]

Some of the earlier comments on this thread, would suggest that there is a more relaxed attitude towards serving a mission, at least in the hearts and minds of the posters.

During my years in the church, TBM's often gave the impression to the public at large, that all missionaries serve purely voluntarily, no pressure, just wonderful young people who give up two years of their lives, in order to bring you, Joe Public the true Gospel.
Jack B. Worthy, author of The Mormon Cult, states that, "In actuality, though, the only voluntary missionaries are girls and retired couples. All boys are commanded to go, and they clearly understand this because they hear it constantly while growing up." page 46.
A Gospel Doctrine manual says, " Through his Prophets, the Lord has repeatedly commanded every worthy, able young man to serve a full-time mission". Old Testament Gospel Doctrine manual page 162.

President Monson in 1990 said " The command to go has not been rescinded. Rather, it has been re-emphasised". Thomas S. Monson, The Army of The Lord, April 1990. In recent years, there has been constant references to "Raising the Bar" for missionary service. What sort of young man is considered to be 'below the bar'? Is it someone who simply wishes to volunteer for a mission? Are the young men who we see on our streets today any more worthy than those who went before? Or is it simply a message to youth, to pull their socks up, so to speak? Are you more worthy if you see a mission as fulfilling the Lord's Command,and less worthy if you just accept that, in order to be accepted in LDS society you had better go?

[_Joseph]

Ajax 18. DON'T enlist in military service. People with your attitude are not needed and never will be.

space boy is nuts and prejudiced, as usual.

In LDS culture there will always be those who will look down at someone who did not go and especially at someone who CHOSE not to go as defective in some way. This will follow them whether they are Steve Young or just another poor slob a year out of High School. The taint of 'not worthy' still sticks to them years later.

[_colbytownsend]

Jack B. Worthy, author of The Mormon Cult, states that, "In actuality, though, the only voluntary missionaries are girls and retired couples. All boys are commanded to go, and they clearly understand this because they hear it constantly while growing up." page 46.
A Gospel Doctrine manual says, " Through his Prophets, the Lord has repeatedly commanded every worthy, able young man to serve a full-time mission". Old Testament Gospel Doctrine manual page 162.

President Monson in 1990 said " The command to go has not been rescinded. Rather, it has been re-emphasised". Thomas S. Monson, The Army of The Lord, April 1990. In recent years, there has been constant references to "Raising the Bar" for missionary service. What sort of young man is considered to be 'below the bar'? Is it someone who simply wishes to volunteer for a mission? Are the young men who we see on our streets today any more worthy than those who went before? Or is it simply a message to youth, to pull their socks up, so to speak? Are you more worthy if you see a mission as fulfilling the Lord's Command,and less worthy if you just accept that, in order to be accepted in LDS society you had better go?

Either Jack B. Worthy doesn't understand that even though one is commanded by God to do something they still have their agency to choose whether or not to follow His commandment, making it voluntary to follow Him; or, he chooses to ignore that fact and make it sound like no one who is commanded by God to do a work does it voluntarily.
Christ commanded the twelve to go out and preach the gospel, but they did it voluntarily.
Somewhat ironic name for the conversation, Jack B. Worthy. Like a pirate, "Arg, Jack be worthy...."