Obeying Church Leaders as a pervasive theme

[_j-bug]

bugs, you and belmot will have a great time together at sleepovers.

osephs, I don't do sleepovers.

[_Wisdom Seeker]

Earlier in this thread J.Antley mentioned prayer in determining if following a church leader is right. Isn't following your or any church or religious leader dependent upon perceived answers to prayers?

I remember seeing something about the 9-11 terrorists and how it is believed that they were very much involved with prayer and turning to spiritual enlightenment in order to fully obey the things in which they were taught to do.

[_Roger Morrison]

Many Church presentations, lessons and even internet dialog among LDS people center, in some way, upon the theme of "Do what you are told by Church leaders".

Why is that?

Because that is how most members want it.

And J-bug, that is because most Mormons are somewhat Buggie. Some being Buggier than others. Stop and think. The CoJCoLDS teaches theology that makes folks Buggie.
In the extreme to be real Buggers, knocking on doors looking for gullible dysfunctional folks to infect with their Bug. . .

Wanna read something really Buggie? Click into Meridian, a LDS e-mag and read the article Raising Kids In the Wicked World, by Larry Barkdull. Gotta wonder about an institution, and a guy, that teaches such drivel and nonsense as truth??? YIKES!!!!!

Roger M.

[Guest]

Obeying without knowledge or research is stupid and is used by many who would force others to do their will. It is never the right thing.

Obeying without knowledge is faith.

[_Quasimodo]

Obeying without knowledge is faith.

"Faith is believing what you know ain't so". Mark Twain.

[_beefcalf]

Obeying without knowledge is faith.

The hijackers on September 11th, 2001 had no knowledge about whether their actions that morning would result in them obtaining a heavenly reward of 72 virgins and eternal life with Allah. They had faith that this was the case.

The Mormons at Mountain Meadows on September 11th, 1857 had no knowledge about whether their actions that morning would result in them obtaining a heavenly reward of polygamous wives and eternal life with Elohim. They had faith that this was the case.

There may be examples of 'acting upon faith without knowledge' which have produced a good outcome, but we can say for a certainty that there are horrific counterexamples which show that the opposite is sometimes the case.

If I poke my scoped hunting rifle out my 4th-story window and start randomly shooting people walking by, it might happen that I will eventually kill someone who is an on-the-loose serial killer. Is that a good way to rid our society of serial killers? No.

Should I depend on faith absent knowledge to guide me in life's important decisions? I vote 'no'. I hope you will vote 'no' as well.

[_Buffalo]

And you really expect people to 'obey' idiots like this?

Believing that someone holds the position to receive inspiration over certain areas doesn't mean that they're always right. Thus the prophets have counseled us to pray about our instruction and receive confirmation for ourselves.

Right, count the hits, ignore the misses. That's how all scams work, from religion to fortune telling.

[_Buffalo]

Because us Mormons believe that the leaders of the Church are appointed and inspired by God.

Except when they're only speaking as men.

Which, according to what is accepted as 'official' in online discussions with LDS apologists, is pretty much all the time.

Yup. When I was an apologist I used to use that trick. "Oh, that isn't official." After a while you come to realize that pretty much NOTHING that any GAs say is official unless it's just parroting the scriptures. In which case, what's the point in having prophets and apostles if all they give is fallible opinion or else simply reiterate old doctrines?

[_Wisdom Seeker]

Buffalo,

How long were you an apologist?

[_moksha]

In which case, what's the point in having prophets and apostles if all they give is fallible opinion or else simply reiterate old doctrines?

Spiritual guidance and strength when needed. Someone needs to direct the interests of the Church and Corporation.