Joseph: Polygamy was a mistake.

[_MsJack]

Good grief. Why is everyone always so concerned about whether or not harmony lies in order to get a temple recommend?

There are several "faithful" Mormon apologists who post at MDB who must be lying through their teeth on the "Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?" question if they have recommends, and are probably lying about the "strive to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel" question as well. No one cares. No one hounds them about their illegitimate recommends.

I realize I'm only contributing to a derail, but the topic of this thread was supposed to be whether or not Joseph Smith ever denied polygamy. Not whether or not harmony ought to have a recommend, or the care and feeding of Mihalj's dogs, or how much Americans suck.

Getting back on topic (sort of): according to the 2008 Pew Forum, Mormons in the United States had a gender ratio of 44% Male - 56% Female in a country where the reported national ratio is 48% Male - 52% Female. All Christian groups had more women than men, but Mormons were third for most imbalanced ratio among Christian groups; Jehovah's Witnesses and historically black churches were tied for first and second at 40% Male - 60% Female. Evangelicals came closest to matching the national average at 47% Male - 53% Female.

Those are only the American numbers, but I thought it was pretty common knowledge that there are more women than men in the LDS church. (Not that I think polygamy is a good suggestion for accommodating that matter . . . )

[_harmony]

Those are only the American numbers, but I thought it was pretty common knowledge that there are more women than men in the LDS church. (Not that I think polygamy is a good suggestion for accommodating that matter . . . )

I was objecting to his use of the word "always", expecially in relation to the Joseph years and the Brigham yea.Relief Society

[_harmony]

So now lets see, so far between you clowns, you have said that Joseph Smith lost his mantle, that BY never had it, that you beleive the gospel is true and not the church, and that you are sadly disapointed in the bretheren. Now you call me arrogant. Wow.

No, I'm the only one who has said those things, Mihalj. And I didn't call you arrogant. Try to keep us separate; we are, after all, different people.

And please read the rules for the Celestial forum. When I move your posts to Terrestial for noncompliance, you'll now know why. "You clowns" could be construed as a personal attack. .

[_ajax18]

Calling holding, tithe paying, temple recommend holding member for the last 41 years.

Why? You don't seem much more happy about contributing to Boyd K. Packer's estate than I am.

The gospel, yes. The church, no.

That's the way I see it as well.

[_RockSlider]

I miss Harmony

[_LittleNipper]

Well, If Mr. Smith did admit to his doctrine of polygamy being a mistake, is there not a strong possibility that Mr. Smith could have been led astray by Satan with regards to all his other additional "Mormon" doctrines?

[_Zadok]

Well, If Mr. Smith did admit to his doctrine of polygamy being a mistake, is there not a strong possibility that Mr. Smith could have been led astray by Satan with regards to all his other additional "Mormon" doctrines?

Isn't it just easier to come to the realization that it's all made up? Why do we have to wonder if they were led astray by some mythical spirit. Just agree he was a creative person who made it all up.

[_malkie]

I miss Harmony

Yep!

[_Boanerges]

...

[_grindael]

I recall reading somewhere that Joseph Smith, near the end of his life, said something to the effect that polygamy had been a "mistake".

Does anyone know where I can learn more about the context & circumstances under which this statement was made? Thanks!

Joseph Smith had so many problems with Emma that he was forced to do this in October of 1843:

Thursday, October 5[th] Morning rode out with Esqu[ire] Butterfield to farm &c. P.M. rode on prairie to shew some brethren some land. Eve[ning] at home. Walked up and down St[reet] with Scribe and gave instructions to try those who were preaching, teaching, or practicing the doctrine of plurality of wives on this Law. Joseph forbids it and the practice thereof. No man shall have but one wife. [rest of page blank] {page 116} (Scott H. Faulring, An American Prophet's Record, p.417, October 5, 1843).

Coupled with his constant public denials that anyone in the Church was practicing the spiritual wife doctrine, many believed that Joseph never practiced it, and some believed that he had repented of doing so. As Dan Vogel has observed, D&C 132 is actually Smith's repentance for practicing polyandry. (He did not "marry" another woman who had a living husband after July, 1843). This he was also probably forced to do by Emma since she told him if he was going to indulge himself in that way, she would too.

[June 23, 1843. Friday.] This A.M. President Joseph took me and conversed considerable concerning some delicate matters. Said [Emma] wanted to lay a snare for me. He told me last night of this and said he had felt troubled. He said [Emma] had treated him coldly and badly since I came…and he knew she was disposed to be revenged on him for some things. She thought that if he would indulge himself she would too. He cautioned me very kindly for which I felt thankful. He said [Robert] Thompson professed great friendship for him but he gave away to temptation and he had to die. Also Brother [Newel] Knight he gave him one but he went to loose conduct and he could not save him. Also B[righam] Y[oung] had transgressed his covenant and he pled with the Lord to spare him this end and he did so, otherwise he would have died. B[righam] denied having transgressed. He said if I would do right by him and abide his council he would save my life while he lived. I feel desirous to do right and would rather die than loose my interest in the celestial kingdom…(George D. Smith, An Intimate Chronicle; The Journals of William Clayton, p.109)

Smith may have confided in some that he regretted polygamy, but I would not count on it. He stated to Clayton in August 1843:

[August 11, 1843. Friday.] A.M. To the Temple office. P.M. President Joseph came to my house and I went home with him [p.115] and took dinner with him. In our conversation about Judge [James] Adams Joseph made this remark "No man can put forth his hand to steady the ark but God and his servant Joseph." By the ark I understood him to mean this work and that no man could dictate and govern it but Jehovah and he whom God had appointed viz. his servant Joseph…Judge Adams died about 10 o'clock P.M. None of his family are here having only been sent for a few days and they are at Springfield. It is truly afflicting to see the sickness which exists through the city and the loss of this man seems very grievous. He attended the polls on Monday last and was elected Probate Judge for this County but he is gone to receive his reward in the other world. Joseph told me to day that [William?] "Walker" had been speaking to him concerning my having taken M[argaret] away from A[aron] and intimated that I had done wrong. I told him to be quiet and say no more about it. He also told me Emma was considerably displeased with it but says he she will soon get over it. In the agony of mind which I have endured on this subject I said I was sorry I had done it, at which Joseph told me not to say so. I finally asked him if I had done wrong in what I had done. He answered no you have a right to get all you can. (George D. Smith, An Intimate Chronicle; The Journals of William Clayton, p.115)

Then a few days later they had this conversation,

[August 16, 1843. Wednesday.]…We returned and met President Joseph and some of the family going to the funeral of Judge Adams. P.M. I went with A[lpheus] Young to look at a lot and called at Sister Booths who is in trouble. Robert [Booth] is gone away to work, Sarah Ann [Booth] is gone to Keokuk, and Elesabeth [] and husband is going to Chicago this evening. This A.M. Joseph told me that since E[mma] came back from St. Louis she had resisted the P[riesthood] in toto and he had to tell her he would relinquish all for her sake. She said she would [have] given him E[liza] and E[mily] P[artridge], but he knew if he took them she would pitch on him and obtain a divorce and leave him. He however told me he should not relinquish anything. O God deliver thy servant from iniquity and bondage.

There were some affidavits made in 1869 by Emily and Eliza Partridge that Emma did in fact participate in a "marriage" ceremony (a second mock ceremony) where she "gave" Joseph Emily and Eliza, which Emily declared happened in MAY of 1843. But the August entry shows that Joseph never took them with Emma's knowledge. That August 16, entry was also written into the 1869 Affidavit Books and I believe it was used as a basis for the Partridge affidavits. There are two by Eliza, but they are unsigned and both give the same bogus May 11th date for the mock marriage. (Which Mike Marquardt has debunked). If Emma had already given Joseph those two women, why is he stating in August that if he took them she would divorce him? I believe it is more likely that at some point Joseph told Emma that it was all "spiritual", but when she found out it was not, went nuts about it. They might have even discussed Joseph taking some women as SPIRITUAL only wives. That is why she rejected the polygamy revelation in July, she then KNEW that it was not just ceremony, but that Joseph was having sex with them.

Even in November 1844 they were denying polygamy in Nauvoo:

The saints of the last days have witnessed the outgoings and incomings of so many apostates that nothing but truth has any effect upon them. In the present instance, after the sham quotations of Sidney and his clique, from the Bible, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants, to skulk off, under the "dreadful splendor" of "spiritual wifery," which is brought into the account as graciously as if the law of the land allowed a man a plurality of wives, is fiendish, and like the rest of Sidney's revelation, just because he wanted "to go to Pittsburg [Pittsburgh] and live." Wo to the man or men who will thus wilfully [willfully] lie to injure an innocent people! The law of the land and the rules of the church do not allow one man to have more than one wife alive at once, but if any man's wife die, he has a right to marry another, and to be sealed to both for eternity; to the living and the dead! there is no law of God or man against it! This is all the spiritual wife system that ever was tolerated in the church, and they know it. (Times and Seasons, Vol. 5, Nov. 15, 1844, p. 715).

These outright lies gave rise to the notion that Joseph had either never practiced polygamy or that he did and repented of doing so. He never did repent of it. He may have regretted it though on his way to Carthage in June of 1844.