Tobin wrote:Why don't you just speak with God about it Themis and let the evidence come in time? IF you were committed to the idea of being a Mormon, that is all it is really all about anyway. It isn't like I'm not aware of what the evidence shows and does not show. It has no impact on my belief in God one way or the other.
While I have expressed reasons why that is not a reliable method, in this instance we are talking about physical evidence that Jo thinks supports the Book of Mormon being a real story of two ancient Israelite groups coming to the Americas. I would like her to start by bringing up one piece of evidence and then everyone can discuss it.
Tobin wrote:Why don't you just speak with God about it Themis and let the evidence come in time? IF you were committed to the idea of being a Mormon, that is all it is really all about anyway. It isn't like I'm not aware of what the evidence shows and does not show. It has no impact on my belief in God one way or the other.
While I have expressed reasons why that is not a reliable method, in this instance we are talking about physical evidence that Jo thinks supports the Book of Mormon being a real story of two ancient Israelite groups coming to the Americas. I would like her to start by bringing up one piece of evidence and then everyone can discuss it.
I've looked through what Jo has posted. I don't think Jo has a leg to stand on. I still believe in Mormonism (parts) and really think this kind of evidence-led belief is useless. If you are going to believe in God, just go to the source and get real evidence of that. Otherwise, it's all a con job and you might as well be an atheist.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:I've looked through what Jo has posted. I don't think Jo has a leg to stand on.
Perhaps, but I will let her bring up what she thinks supports her beliefs on this issue.
I still believe in Mormonism (parts) and really think this kind of evidence-led belief is useless.
Perhaps, but then it is more reliable then the alternative you propose. :)
If you are going to believe in God, just go to the source and get real evidence of that. Otherwise, it's all a con job and you might as well be an atheist.
I may be wrong, but my understanding is that you never went to God, but that you believe he came to you as an evil apostate.
Themis wrote:I may be wrong, but my understanding is that you never went to God, but that you believe he came to you as an evil apostate.
Yep, so if that can happen to me, I'm sure it can happen for you. :P
I strongly disagree with Mormons that would have any lower standards for belief. After all, Joseph Smith seemed to see lots of things. So did a lot of the early saints. Seems like there is a theme here that modern Mormons are missing out on. IF you don't know there is a God and God hasn't told you to believe in this stuff, DON'T!!! You need something substantial to believe it. Feelings will never cut it and neither will self-evident sciptures, mound-builders, or any other non-sense that the typical Mormon will bring up to prove it either.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Themis wrote:I may be wrong, but my understanding is that you never went to God, but that you believe he came to you as an evil apostate.
Yep, so if that can happen to me, I'm sure it can happen for you. :P
I strongly disagree with Mormons that would have any lower standards for belief. After all, Joseph Smith seemed to see lots of things. So did a lot of the early saints. Seems like there is a theme here that modern Mormons are missing out on. IF you don't know there is a God and God hasn't told you to believe in this stuff, DON'T!!! You need something substantial to believe it. Feelings will never cut it and neither will self-evident sciptures, mound-builders, or any other non-sense that the typical Mormon will bring up to prove it either.
I wonder why God would come to you, when you were not worthy and avoid most others who seem to be seeking God.
Themis wrote:I wonder why God would come to you, when you were not worthy and avoid most others who seem to be seeking God.
Why don't you ask him? :)
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
I think it odd that so many are seeking God and he is not coming to them, yet you were not and he came to you. Hmm
I don't think it is odd at all. That is something between you and God. Not between me and you or anyone else. The whole point of Mormonism is to invite people to seek and really speak with God. I don't think Mormons should really set any other expectations and just be understanding of people and kind to them otherwise.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
I think it's odd that Mormonism can be full of error and still be "true."
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
just me wrote:I think it's odd that Mormonism can be full of error and still be "true."
Mormonism is based on truth, that being there is a God. If you don't agree with that, that is your right. But it isn't an error.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom