Plan of Salvation?

[_PrickKicker]

So show us a contradiction, and I may show that you have a misunderstanding of the Bible.

And there is Religion for you...

Show me a genuine factual error and I will tell you you're wrong!
Don't agree with me, I will shed your blood.

[_jo1952]

The reality is that GOD has all knowledge. We will never possess all knowledge for we are not GOD. And right now we are limited to this life we live and what God has desired to reveal to us. Yes, we may study, but our study should never replace or be held above GOD's revelation. What one sees as a contradiction of scripture should thrust the one who loves the Lord towards more Bible study and prayer.

My comments to you were spurred by your following claims:

LittleNipper wrote:
... Although these works were written independently, they show an amazing congruency and they never contradict each other!

LittleNipper wrote:
So show us a contradiction, and I may show that you have a misunderstanding of the Bible.

It appears you are not able to back up your own claims when someone rises up to meet your own challenge.

You also wrote this:

God speaks through His Holy Word ---- The Bible. He tells us what He likes and dislikes. He explains why we need salvation and who Jesus Christ is.

What you failed to recognize is written in the passages of the Bible is this:

1 John 5:7-8 (KJV)

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

In other words, the "Word" bears record in Heaven; NOT ON EARTH. On the earth, it is the Holy Spirit who bears witness; NOT THE WORD. John is telling us that it is the Holy Spirit who will do the explaining and teaching here on earth. Yet YOU have contradicted the Bible and have confessed to following on the earth something which does not bear record on the earth.

God is a LIVING God. Neither He nor His Son exist in the Bible. To learn and understand God and His Son you MUST be led by the Holy Spirit. And as Jesus taught, it will be the Holy Spirit (the Comforter) who will lead us to ALL TRUTH; not just those parts of Truth which happen to be written down in the book we call The Bible and which, by the way, STILL need to be interpreted through the power of the Holy Spirit and NOT by man. We are on the earth; the Word does not bear record on the earth!!! GOD DOES NOT USE THE Bible TO SPEAK TO US; HE USES THE HOLY SPIRIT TO SPEAK TO US. As such, the Bible will ONLY be a stumbling block UNLESS it is the Holy Spirit who is leading and speaking and teaching not only the parts of Truth recorded in the Bible, but to ALL TRUTH.

He that has ears, let him hear!!

Blessings,

jo

[_PrickKicker]

What you failed to recognize is written in the passages of the Bible is this:

1 John 5:7-8 (KJV)

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

In other words, the "Word" bears record in Heaven; NOT ON EARTH. On the earth, it is the Holy Spirit who bears witness; NOT THE WORD. John is telling us that it is the Holy Spirit who will do the explaining and teaching here on earth. Yet YOU have contradicted the Bible and have confessed to following on the earth something which does not bear record on the earth.

God is a LIVING God. Neither He nor His Son exist in the Bible. To learn and understand God and His Son you MUST be led by the Holy Spirit. And as Jesus taught, it will be the Holy Spirit (the Comforter) who will lead us to ALL TRUTH; not just those parts of Truth which happen to be written down in the book we call The Bible and which, by the way, STILL need to be interpreted through the power of the Holy Spirit and NOT by man. We are on the earth; the Word does not bear record on the earth!!! GOD DOES NOT USE THE Bible TO SPEAK TO US; HE USES THE HOLY SPIRIT TO SPEAK TO US. As such, the Bible will ONLY be a stumbling block UNLESS it is the Holy Spirit who is leading and speaking and teaching not only the parts of Truth recorded in the Bible, but to ALL TRUTH.

He that has ears, let him hear!!

Blessings,

jo

I believe you are on the wrong thread if you wish to debate the trinity you should look here...http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24912

[Guest]

...

[_LittleNipper]

John 1:1 What Mormons fall to understand is that Jesus is the Christ and fulfills the Word just as God the Father designed and required it to be. Then Christ returned to the Father and sent the Holy Spirit down to knock at the door of the lost human's soul and then to comfort the saved believer. Read the entire chapter of John 1. It is as plain as as plain can be. Christ is the Word and is now in heaven bearing witness before the Father. The Holy Spirit is everywhere and so bears witness both on earth and in heaven in full commune with the Father and Christ...

New International Version (©1984)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
New Living Translation (©2007)
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

English Standard Version (©2001)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

International Standard Version (©2008)
In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
In the origin The Word had been existing and That Word had been existing with God and That Word was himself God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

American King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

American Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Douay-Rheims Bible
IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Darby Bible Translation
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

English Revised Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Webster's Bible Translation
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Weymouth New Testament
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

World English Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Young's Literal Translation
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;

[_jo1952]

John 1:1 What Mormons fall to understand is that Jesus is the Christ and fulfills the Word just as God the Father designed and required it to be. Then Christ returned to the Father and sent the Holy Spirit down to knock at the door of the lost human's soul and then to comfort the saved believer. Read the entire chapter of John 1. It is as plain as as plain can be. Christ is the Word and is now in heaven bearing witness before the Father. The Holy Spirit is everywhere and so bears witness both on earth and in heaven in full commune with the Father and Christ...

LN:

There WAS no Bible until well after Christ's Ascension for Christians to have or study from; as such, there was NO Word available to them unless they received oral teachings. The Comforter came AFTER Christ's Ascension. There was NO member of the Godhead (or, if you wish, the Trinity) to lead to All Truth UNTIL the Holy Ghost, as attested to by Christ Himself. By limiting yourself to the manuscripts which were made canon by men, you are limiting yourself to the amount of Truth available to you. It is possible to receive ALL Truth; but you are content with what man has made available to you, to be confirmed by the Holy Ghost, and NOT what God is waiting to reveal to you through the Holy Ghost.

This is NOT an understanding of the Bible which is uniquely LDS. Your comment, therefore, is spurious, contentious, and unChristlike. I have provided what Jesus taught as recorded in those various Gospels which were included in the Bible which were canonized. It is there for everyone to read, regardless of their religious affiliation. Each person gets to choose the amount of Truth they will limit themselves to. Without the Holy Ghost, man cannot be led to, or have ANY Truth confirmed or added to their understanding; not even those parts of Truth which ARE recorded in the Bible. Without seeking Truth through the guidance and power of the Holy Ghost, man remains blind to Truth. By depending only upon what is recorded in the Bible (which isn't even everything that WAS taught and/or recorded), man will remain blind to all other parts of Truth. What is sad is that this is not necessary, since God sent the Holy Ghost for the very purpose of leading us to All Truth in an on-going, living process!!

Blessings,

jo

[_Tobin]

Good luck with LittleNipper Jo. He and people like him are idol worshippers. They choose to worship the Bible and how they can twist and re-interpret God's words however they wish, instead of seeking and speaking with God directly. Until a person is willing to humble themselves and seek and speak with the Lord, as in Moroni's promise, they can not come to an understanding of God or the gospel. This is what separates those who follow God, and those who wish to dictate to God and others what they must believe.

[_jo1952]

Good luck with LittleNipper Jo. He and people like him are idol worshippers. They choose to worship the Bible and how they can twist and re-interpret God's words however they wish, instead of seeking and speaking with God directly. Until a person is willing to humble themselves and seek and speak with the Lord, as in Moroni's promise, they can not come to an understanding of God or the gospel. This is what separates those who follow God, and those who wish to dictate to God and others what they must believe.

Hi Tobin!

How sad - but way too often how it is. I guess I continue to share in the hopes that seeds will be planted which will, at some point, take hold and grow.

Blessings,

jo

[_Tobin]

Good luck with LittleNipper Jo. He and people like him are idol worshippers. They choose to worship the Bible and how they can twist and re-interpret God's words however they wish, instead of seeking and speaking with God directly. Until a person is willing to humble themselves and seek and speak with the Lord, as in Moroni's promise, they can not come to an understanding of God or the gospel. This is what separates those who follow God, and those who wish to dictate to God and others what they must believe.

Hi Tobin!

How sad - but way too often how it is. I guess I continue to share in the hopes that seeds will be planted which will, at some point, take hold and grow.

Blessings,

jo

Agreed and I feel for them as well. Many on here try to grasp at these concepts, yet can not bring themselves to follow God, believe in him, seek him, and do was he asks. The gospel eludes them because they can not fathom God due to their disbelief. LittleNipper, Albion, Mittens and company are here to correct or fix Mormons. I find that humorous because they are the ones in need of fixing. They say they believe in God, but they will no seek him, they will not speak with him, and they will not do all that he asks.

Then you have those that do not believe - Drifting, Themis and so on. They reject God and do not believe in a God who can speak to them. They futilely pit themselves against God and try to destroy his work and unsurprisingly God does not speak with them. Then they say if only God would speak with us, we would believe. That is just as sad because God knows them and who and what they are. They suppose they can fool God by saying such things. But when you speak with them, you can see the evil and hardness of their hearts and minds, yet they feel they are worthy to speak with God. The reality is they are only worthy of being burned at the coming of the Lord because of their wickedness and hard hearts. Unless they repent, humble themselves, and come unto the Lord - that will sadly be their fate.

[_jo1952]

Agreed and I feel for them as well. Many on here try to grasp at these concepts, yet can not bring themselves to follow God, believe in him, seek him, and do was he asks. The gospel eludes them because they can not fathom God due to their disbelief. LittleNipper, Albion, Mittens and company are here to correct or fix Mormons. I find that humorous because they are the ones in need of fixing. They say they believe in God, but they will no seek him, they will not speak with him, and they will not do all that he asks.

Then you have those that do not believe - Drifting, Themis and so on. They reject God and do not believe in a God who can speak to them. They futilely pit themselves against God and try to destroy his work and unsurprisingly God does not speak with them. Then they say if only God would speak with us, we would believe. That is just as sad because God knows them and who and what they are. They suppose they can fool God by saying such things. But when you speak with them, you can see the evil and hardness of their hearts and minds, yet they feel they are worthy to speak with God. The reality is they are only worthy of being burned at the coming of the Lord because of their wickedness and hard hearts. Unless they repent, humble themselves, and come unto the Lord - that will sadly be their fate.

Hi Tobin:

I have to share something that happened several days ago, which is still surprising me with disbelief. A friend informed me about a blog that was taking place with the recent news about a piece of papyrus which was found. It is thought that the evidence reveals the possibility that Jesus was married. Here is the blogsite:

http://ntweblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/ ... -wife.html

Here is Mark Goodacre's home page:

http://markgoodacre.org/

In all that was offered, nothing ever came up about seeking the Truth from God Himself. So I posted a very brief comment politely suggesting we should seek direction from God and pray about the issue. I went back to the blogsite infrequently over the next two days to see if anyone had responded to me. Much to my surprise, on the third day, I found that my comment had been deleted by a blog administrator!! Scroll down the page and you will see where this was done. So, Heaven forbid that a group of Christians should seek God's input concerning an issue about His Son, Jesus Christ!! Instead, they prefer to depend upon their own scholarly resources of man. Wow.....just.....wow. Especially look at what they allowed to remain! Man wants to create his own "truth" about God. This is just one more example.

Blessings,

jo