Is God a Mormon?

[_subgenius]

Really?

yes

You think people being impoverished temporally is a significant hinderance to their spiritual development?

yes

Did it hinder Jesus?

no, but he was not impoverished temporally

You think that is a doctrinal truth?

likely

Seriously?

yes

Why don't Bishops ask about potential converts level of temporal well being?
"Yes Potential Convert, I know you believe the Church is true, but do you have the moola necessary to blossom?"

your point here is incoherent.
the scriptures, and bishops, recognize the need to help, temporally, impoverished people. This is because being impoverished is bad spiritually...otherwise why bother? if there is not a spiritual benefit for an impoverished person then helping them is unnecessary....doe God have a concern for those who are sick? poor?....why?....what temporal concern does He have?...none...His concerns are always spiritual...He takes away our hunger, by many means, not to satisfy the instinct but to elevate the spirit.

[_Bazooka]

Subgenius, how does the building up of City Creek align with the stated purposes of the Church (four fold mission) and align with Keith McMullin's related statement about helping people who are impoverished temporally?

[_subgenius]

Subgenius, how does the building up of City Creek align with the stated purposes of the Church (four fold mission) and align with Keith McMullin's related statement about helping people who are impoverished temporally?

again, from the article:

On the other hand, says historian D. Michael Quinn, who is working on a book about the LDS Church’s finances and businesses, “The Mormon Church is very different than any other church. … Traditional Christianity and Judaism make a clear distinction between what is spiritual and what is temporal, while Mormon theology specifically denies that there is such a distinction.” To Latter-day Saints, opening megamalls, operating a billion-dollar media and insurance conglomerate, and running a Polynesian theme park are all part of doing God’s work. Says Quinn: “In the Mormon [leadership’s] worldview, it’s as spiritual to give alms to the poor, as the old phrase goes in the Biblical sense, as it is to make a million dollars.”

Watching a religious leader celebrate a mall may seem surreal, but City Creek reflects the spirit of enterprise that animates modern-day Mormonism. The mall is part of a sprawling church-owned corporate empire that the Mormon leadership says is helping spread its message, increasing economic self-reliance, and building the Kingdom of God on earth. “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints attends to the total needs of its members,” says Keith B. McMullin,

Henry B. Eyring, one of Monson’s top counselors, told the crowds, “Everything that we see around us is evidence of the long-standing commitment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to Salt Lake City.”

McMullin explains that City Creek exists to combat urban blight, not to fill church coffers. “Will there be a return?” he asks rhetorically. “Yes, but so modest that you would never have made such an investment—the real return comes in folks moving back downtown and the revitalization of businesses.” Pausing briefly, he adds with deliberation, “It’s for furthering the aim of the church to make, if you will, bad men good, and good men better.”

As an architect i am likely bias towards how architecture can influence life....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_renewal


"Those who can, build. Those who can't, criticize." - Robert Moses

[_schreech]

As an architect i am likely bias towards how architecture can influence life....

Everything just clicked into place...

[_Bazooka]

Subgenius, how does the building up of City Creek align with the stated purposes of the Church (four fold mission) and align with Keith McMullin's related statement about helping people who are impoverished temporally?

again, from the article:

On the other hand, says historian D. Michael Quinn, who is working on a book about the LDS Church’s finances and businesses, “The Mormon Church is very different than any other church. … Traditional Christianity and Judaism make a clear distinction between what is spiritual and what is temporal, while Mormon theology specifically denies that there is such a distinction.” To Latter-day Saints, opening megamalls, operating a billion-dollar media and insurance conglomerate, and running a Polynesian theme park are all part of doing God’s work. Says Quinn: “In the Mormon [leadership’s] worldview, it’s as spiritual to give alms to the poor, as the old phrase goes in the Biblical sense, as it is to make a million dollars.”

Watching a religious leader celebrate a mall may seem surreal, but City Creek reflects the spirit of enterprise that animates modern-day Mormonism. The mall is part of a sprawling church-owned corporate empire that the Mormon leadership says is helping spread its message, increasing economic self-reliance, and building the Kingdom of God on earth. “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints attends to the total needs of its members,” says Keith B. McMullin,

Henry B. Eyring, one of Monson’s top counselors, told the crowds, “Everything that we see around us is evidence of the long-standing commitment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to Salt Lake City.”

McMullin explains that City Creek exists to combat urban blight, not to fill church coffers. “Will there be a return?” he asks rhetorically. “Yes, but so modest that you would never have made such an investment—the real return comes in folks moving back downtown and the revitalization of businesses.” Pausing briefly, he adds with deliberation, “It’s for furthering the aim of the church to make, if you will, bad men good, and good men better.”

As an architect i am likely bias towards how architecture can influence life....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_renewal


"Those who can, build. Those who can't, criticize." - Robert Moses

How does City Creek, specifically, combat Urban Blight (as opposed to merely making Temple Square look better)?
How does City Creek, specifically, revitalise the businesses (as opposed to a small number of selected businesses whilst others are harmed)?
How does City Creek, specifically, make bad men good?
How does the advertising for City Creek reflect Church standards?

[Guest]

...

[_moksha]

First you should understand that being impoverished is not necessarily about money...and then understand that Jesus did not teach what you say here.

You seemingly have never studied the scriptures, the perverse position that God wants, or does not care, if people are sick and poor is alarming for a literate person.

You are right, impoverished need not deal with money, but usage of that term usually is associated with economic poverty. Do you suspect Elder McMullin dug deep into the well of alternate meanings? Is that common for a business man?

You are also right about my not being a biblical scholar or a terribly literate person, however, I think you are employing the apologetic tool of obfuscation when you say that Elder McMullin was championing God wishing us to care for the sick and poor when he said, "We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually." Sounds more like a plea for the lame and the halt to take up their sick bed and get a job so they can donate to the coffers of God, or else another paean to the spiritual worth of the big donors, much like their pre-valiance for being born into these times as prosperous Mormons.

O tempora o mores, o bad temporal poverty.

[_Bazooka]

If anyone is familiar with sim city 3000 , building the mega mall is bad for the mom and pop businesses ... however it does re-vitalize the economy in a short term investment return.

@screech - LoL nice pic .

But to the Keith McMullin's statement ... we shall see if Mormonism and its societal habbits create spiritually enriched peoples , can't say it's really been around long enough to tell conclusively.
However its policies of shielding its members from the rest of the world looks to have created a bunch of socially inept peoples.

McMullin, in the same interview, admits that the Church will not make any kind of material return on this investment. Which, considering the huge amounts of liquid capital the Church ploughed into it, makes it a commercial disaster.
City Creek does not stand up as an inspired commercial investment. So, having splashed all this cash so that Monson has a better view from out of his tithing funded Penthouse Suite, other, more religious reasonings for City Creek have to be found.

Unfortunately for McMullin, the reasons he came up with don't seem to hold water. But we will wait and see if subgenius can help him out by answering my simple questions....

Note: Following the opening of City Creek the Presiding Bishopric were all moved on to other duties...

[_bcuzbcuz]

Earth is the only inhabited planet in the universe. Jesus is the only Christ. There is only one begotten Son of God.

The first part I get, until evidence comes forward of anything to the contrary. But Jesus and the only son part of what's name? That part is still open for debate.

[_subgenius]

First you should understand that being impoverished is not necessarily about money...and then understand that Jesus did not teach what you say here.

You seemingly have never studied the scriptures, the perverse position that God wants, or does not care, if people are sick and poor is alarming for a literate person.

You are right, impoverished need not deal with money, but usage of that term usually is associated with economic poverty. Do you suspect Elder McMullin dug deep into the well of alternate meanings? Is that common for a business man?

i believe it is common for any man to deliberate in the words they choose given the circumstances...for example, most people would use the word "poor"...the deliberate use of the word "impoverished" implies that the word "poor" was inappropriate to the point being conveyed.

You are also right about my not being a biblical scholar or a terribly literate person, however, I think you are employing the apologetic tool of obfuscation when you say that Elder McMullin was championing God wishing us to care for the sick and poor when he said, "We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually." Sounds more like a plea for the lame and the halt to take up their sick bed and get a job so they can donate to the coffers of God, or else another paean to the spiritual worth of the big donors, much like their pre-valiance for being born into these times as prosperous Mormons.

O tempora o mores, o bad temporal poverty.

i suppose, given the brand of hearing aid yo employ, it could "sound" like whatever you want or don't want it to sound like. But rather than rely on some clandestine meaning between the lines it may be best to rely on the lines themselves.
In reality it sounds like the reasonable assertion that spiritual obstacles are created by temporal suffering.