False Prophet=Joseph Smith=Brigham Young

[_Fence Sitter]

As a side note it is really ironic that you both are trying to attack Mormonism here since this board is known for being very critical of Mormonism. ****Most of us here do not believe**** Joseph Smith was a prophet and we are very skeptical about the Mormon Church today. It should tell you something when the critics of the people you are attacking think you're wrong.

Fencesitter, glad to hear that most on here do not believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. Finally one of you admits.

Jason,

Finally one of us admits it? Seriously? Your problem is pretty obvious, you either are not reading the responses you're getting or are incapable of understanding them. Anyone who spends any time at all on this board will immediately see that a great majority of us here reject Joseph Smith as a prophet. It's clear you are too busy copying and pasting to pay attention to how people are responding and what other people believe.
Perhaps you can show some respect to those that are taking the time to engage you by actually making the effort to understand their POV, and to acknowledge that there are a variety of opinions on this board.

There is way to much damning evidence to prove that he is not a prophet inspite of the churches attempts to twist and contort these facts. ie for example Book of Abraham and errors Joseph Smith copied from the KJV of the Bible to the Book of Mormon etc etc

Again you are preaching to the choir here, but it's pretty obvious your Bible suffers from the same issues.

The fact that Makelan has engaged you doesn't mean all of use are faithful LDS. By the way, given that information, you should ask yourself why those of us here that disagree with Makelan, on very fundamental issues, acknowledge and respect what he says.

MY beef is---- WHY do Mormons insist on being called Christians when they have a completely different and opposing doctrine than Christians?

I don't believe you have any more claim on what defines Christianity than does Makelan. Simple as that. In fact, and this is part of the reason some people have been mocking you,some here believe you are arguing over a being who doesn't exist.

And do you have any idea what begging the question means? Because your question is a textbook example.

Now the foundation of Mormonism is based on the teachings and doctrines that Joseph Smith fabricated ie you say most on here don't believe he was a prophet. YES? So what you are essentially saying is Mormonism is a man-made religion. Right?. If Joseph Smith is not a prophet then what is the foundation of the religion called Mormonism???

To be frank your grasp of Mormonism is worse than your grasp on the Bible, much worse.
By the way, I believe man-made religion is redundant.

Fencesitter I am actually a nice guy and my questions are serious and not as your say an attack. Please believe me.

Than why are you wasting your time on a board critical to Mormonism telling people who know a lot more than you do why Mormons aren't Christian and what Mormons believe? You need to spend more time listening and less time talking.

[_jordon3]

Oh Fence sitter you seem to have your panties in a knot today. You seems to be a man of man assumptions. I asked you a question about Mormonism foundation and your response was "to be frank your grasp of Mormonism is worse that your grasp of the Bible. I will ask again " Is the foundation of Mormonism based on the teachings and doctrines put forth by Joseph Smith. YES or NO

[_Fence Sitter]

Oh Fence sitter you seem to have your panties in a knot today. You seems to be a man of man assumptions.

Ahh I see i need to go back to mocking you since you have no substantive responses yourself but resort to juvenile attacks. Did you know your mother dresses you funny?

I asked you a question about Mormonism foundation and your response was "to be frank your grasp of Mormonism is worse that your grasp of the Bible. I will ask again " Is the foundation of Mormonism based on the teachings and doctrines put forth by Joseph Smith. YES or NO

I believe the foundation of Mormonism is based on the teaching and doctrines of Jesus Christ as interpreted by his modern day prophets and expressed in scripture, both modern day and ancient.

By the way Jason are you familiar with the term "loaded question"?

If so when did you stop beating your wife?

[_Fence Sitter]

I asked you a question about Mormonism foundation and your response was "to be frank your grasp of Mormonism is worse that your grasp of the Bible.

Now my turn.

Please explain what constitutes doctrine in Mormonism?

If you cannot do that, can you at least provide a list of the most important doctrines in Mormonism and where those doctrines may be found. (I am not asking you to defend or criticize these doctrines just what and where they are.)

Show me you have any concept of what Mormons actually believe.

[Guest]

Bump for Jason. How can he follow Christ when it's clear he lied? How can he follow the Bible when it's clearly wrong in so many places?

Hi Daniel, how have you been? I would disagree that Jesus lied. Even Jo didn't believe so, in fact in his Inspired Version he changed the verse to clarify it:

“Verily, I say unto you, this generation, in which these things shall be shown forth, shall not pass away until all I have told you shall be fulfilled. (Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:34)

Smith was saying that all of the verses that spoke of the Second Coming would be fulfilled in his (Smith's generation). Jesus was speaking of the Destruction of the Temple when he spoke of "this generation", not the second coming. He gives the signs to be able to tell when it would happen,

Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

But then he says,

36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

How could Jesus prophecy the time of his Second Coming when he didn't then know when it would be? So how could he say it would be in that generation?

[_maklelan]

Hi Daniel, how have you been?

I've been very well, thank you.

I would disagree that Jesus lied. Even Jo didn't believe so, in fact in his Inspired Version he changed the verse to clarify it:

“Verily, I say unto you, this generation, in which these things shall be shown forth, shall not pass away until all I have told you shall be fulfilled. (Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:34)

Jesus was speaking of the Destruction of the Temple when he spoke of "this generation", not the second coming. Why? Read verse 36:

36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

How could Jesus prophecy the time of his Second Coming when he didn't then know when it would be? He says that he didn't know when it would be. So how could he say it would be in that generation?

He says he didn't know the day or the hour, not that he had no idea whatsoever. V. 37 makes it quite clear that he was indeed talking about the second coming. The "all these things shall be fulfilled of v. 34 includes the following from v. 31:

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This is the second coming, not the destruction of the temple. It also includes the following from v. 30:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

[_grindael]

Joseph Smith disagrees with you.

[_grindael]

I get your point about the day and hour. But one has to look at how Jesus was answering the three questions he was asked,

All three accounts record the first question, "When shall these things be?"

Mark and Luke both record the second question, "What will be the sign that they are about to take place?" The first two questions concern the destruction of the temple.

The third question which is only given in Matthew's account speaks of the return of Christ:

"What will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

Jesus was simply answering all of those questions. He did not know the day nor the hour, but he knew the signs of what generation it would come to pass in. That is why he told them to pass on that they should watch.

Jesus was not a liar. Even your own restoration prophet does not agree with you. These accounts were not written down by clerks who were following them around like Joseph Smith had. They had to remember these things probably many days or years after they happened.

[_maklelan]

I get your point about the day and hour. But one has to look at how Jesus was answering the three questions he was asked,

All three accounts record the first question, "When shall these things be?"

Mark and Luke both record the second question, "What will be the sign that they are about to take place?" The first two questions concern the destruction of the temple.

The third question which is only given in Matthew's account speaks of the return of Christ:

"What will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

Jesus was simply answering all of those questions. He did not know the day nor the hour, but he knew the signs of what generation it would come to pass in. That is why he told them to pass on that they should watch.

And the second coming was expected to occur following the destruction of the temple. That second coming would deliver the Christians from the persecution that would effect that destruction. All the accounts explain that all the things he describes (from destruction through to his second coming) would come to pass during the lives of his disciples. There's no way to eisegete one's way out of the simple fact that Jesus prophesied that his second coming would occur during the lives of his disciples.

Jesus was not a liar. Even your own restoration prophet does not agree with you. These accounts were not written down by clerks who were following them around like Joseph Smith had. They had to remember these things probably many days or years after they happened.

This is just an assertion, not an argument.

[_maklelan]

Joseph Smith disagrees with you.

I'm not arguing from a Latter-day Saint perspective.