Gunnar wrote:
Bad example. Even if God exists, it is inappropriate for either side to pray to God that they will be able to win the game. It is a form of cheating just as inappropriate as using performance enhancing drugs, deliberately shaving points at the behest of gamblers, or deliberately incapacitating key players on the opposing side. Each side should strive to win on their own merits and strengths--not because God favored them.
Hi Gunnar!
As adults we can understand this much better. When we were in high school and college we may have had an inkling about this; but we sure wanted our team to win and we would pray hard that the outcome would be in our favor. We were not yet wise enough to see that this would actually take away the free agency of others. Because we believed in miracles, we would hope against hope that a miracle would take place in our favor!
1 Corinthians 13:11 (KJV)
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.Equally irrelevant.
I would disagree that these are irrelevant; but it is not worth arguing over.
No good! I reject the notion that giving clear, unambiguous and unmistakeable answers somehow takes away any-one's free agency. On the contrary, not to do so would show a callous disregard for the questioner's need or desire to know the truth.
So, what you are looking for is a copy of the answers to the test. This just gave me a flashback to Animal House and the double secret probation which the Delta house was under. Their clandestine efforts to steal the answers really back-fired on them. Great movie!
Why? I cannot believe that a just and reasonable God would impose that requirement on us.
Why not? If we were given all of the correct answers up front, then what have we learned? How many children do you know when they are told not to do something go ahead and do it anyway? In fact, they may not have come up with the idea on their own if an authority hadn't told them not to. Yet having personally experienced the consequences, haven't they learned the lesson better?
Then there are things we try to teach our children TO do. But until they actually experience it, they cannot learn. For instance, how do you teach a child "balance"? When they are learning to walk, they don't even know what the concept of balance is....they are too young; so they just figure it out from trial and error. When they are a little older and are trying to learn to ride a bicycle, or when trying to teach an older person how to ride a bicycle who never learned to do so as a child, telling them about balance or showing them pictures is not going to teach them what balance on a bicycle feels like. If they are too afraid of falling, they may never take up the challenge and learn. If they take on the challenge, look at the reward! Is the parent or teacher being amiguous just because the student cannot see balance until they take the risk (exercise faith, so to speak) and learn what balance feels like?
On the other hand, it is very easy to see why religious charlatans who know their claims are unsupported or even contradicted by the best available evidence would claim that. In the final analysis, what else can they do if determined to profit by religious claims that they know are not true?
Unfortunately, BECAUSE religious belief is faith-based, individuals are vulnerable to man's input, lies, etc. Until a person truly begins experiencing the guidance of the Holy Ghost and learns discernment, they are susceptible to anything man has to say about God; regardless of whether they are hearing Truth or not. OTOH, God knows this is going to happen. It is why He is concerned about what our spirit is learning; not the condition of the stance of our physical body. It is why He looks at our faithfulness to what we think is "true" because it is so easy to be fooled. Therefore, if we are faithful to what we think is true, even if it is NOT true, this is counted as righteousness on our part. As such, He is happy we believe in Him, even if our ideas about Him are wrong. And He blesses us as though we had everything right.
Meanwhile, though, we are still learning the effects of our choices between good and evil. We are basically in God college here on the earth. We are learning to control (or not) our physical appetites, etc. However, our spirit is not learning anything until we begin to awaken spiritually. How can we become joint-heirs to all that He has without training?
I think that one of the very silliest religious concepts is the Idea that God would tell us what to believe, and then deliberately withhold or obscure hard, unambiguous evidence that supports that belief in order to "test our faith."
I absolutely agree with you!! Yet it is not God who has told us "what to believe"; MAN has! The New Testament is filled will what we should be doing and how we should be living our lives; NOT what we should believe. Yes, the New Testament does teach us to believe in Christ; yet believing in Christ is NOT the only path to salvation taught there! It is MAN who focuses on believing in Christ and who sets up the rules; NOT God. The New Testament ALSO teaches salvation by the works of those who do not live under the Law. How many people do you know ever focus on that teaching?
Do you think that if God HAD provided an extremely strict and clear path that mankind could have followed it? We even argue over which way is best to fill our toilet paper dispensers; is "over" better than "under"?!
Coming to the earth is a not a pass/fail test. It is a learning experience. For those who choose not to walk in faith, the learning of all parts of Truth is going to take longer than for those who do choose to walk in faith.
It is already hard enough to convince some people of the truth even when they are presented with hard, incontrovertible, supporting evidence! Why would a fair, just and sane God want to further handicap us by not permitting us to have such evidence? The idea that permitting the existence of and encouraging reliance on clear, unambiguous, hard evidence somehow denies us our "free agency" is a complete, self-serving crock promoted by those whose main intent is to deceive and bilk the gullible.
If God wanted us to be His robotic army, there would have been no need for us to come to earth. Meanwhile, mankind is going to argue over everything. We will continue to drive each other crazy. I have found through personal experience that I prefer the spiritual walk while I am still stuck in this physical training ground. But that is my own choice to make; and I thank God I am allowed to make it.....mistakes and all.
Blessings to you too, Jo. I have little doubt that you are a good person with the most honorable intentions, but I am sure that you can also see that there is no field of human endeavor that is more rife with fraud, error, and deliberate deception than religion, and no scams that are more successful or injurious than religious scams.
Unfortunately even this most injurious field is in this condition because of man's greed, ego, jealousy, etc. It pervades all aspects of our lives. The only other field which is equal to it is political power. Too often the lines are blurred between the two. Both have been disastrous to the lives and well-being of mankind.
Many blessings, Gunnar!!!
Love,
jo