Bible verse by verse

[_LittleNipper]

The Bible doesn't contradict itself.

Don't look now, but Mormons say the same thing about the Book of Mormon. And Islamists say the same thing about the Quran. And Scientologists say the same thing about Dianetics. And Hare Krishnas say the same thing about the Bhagavad Gita.

People who find no answer to supposed contradictions are not seeking God and are not reading the Bible as a means to comprehend Him.

See above.

They take verses out of context and miss a much broader picture that God is revealing.

This is one of the reasons why fundamentalist sects are so dangerous--because anyone who disagrees with you is automatically going against god.

It is like the man who opened a new puzzle box and took one piece from the pile and said," I don't see where this goes ---- it must be a defective puzzle." and promptly returned the box without ever trying to assemble it.

Yeah...I hear this from Mormons, Scientologists, Islamists...etc.

Why does your god use the same arguments to prove his existence that all the fake gods use?

A real god would surely be able to offer something more persuasive than the unconvincing arguments of a fake god.

What conclusions can we draw from the fact that your god can only imitate fake gods?

I'm sorry --- I have to disagree. Those other religions require WORKS. I don't have to do anything but realize I'm a sinner, I need salvation, and ask God through Christ to come into my life. I don't have to belong to a particular church. I don't have to pray facing a particular direction at a particular time. I don't have to get baptized for dead relatives. I don't have to ring bells or sell flowers in airports. I am not told to kill those that reject my beliefs. My wife doesn't have to wear a vale. I don't have to wear a turban. I don't need special underwear. I don't have to be rich or famous. I don't need to go to a temple, or some special facility. I am not required to carve statues or paint icons. I do not need to swim in a "holy" river. I don't need some prophet to tell me what the Bible says, or a pope, or cult director. I am not required to do missionary service. I do not have to refrain from pork, coffee, soda, etc... The Bible is accepted in PART by most of those other belief systems ; however, they add to it and subtract from it at will and highlight other books that are the product of one individual's special revelation without any historic backing.

So no, I have to disagree with you entirely. All religions are not the same. Christ completed the works. I am not required to do anything but believe, and according to the Bible even that is the work of the Holy Spirit and not me!

[_LittleNipper]

Job 39:1-30 The Lord continues:

"Do you know when mountain goats are born, or see the birth pangs of deer,

Do you designate the months that they must fulfill, or know when they will give birth --- crouching down to drop their young, delivering their offspring?

Their offspring thrive and grow in the open, they go and do not return.

Who provided the wild donkey his freedom, and who unbinds the wild ass?

I made the wilderness his home and the salt flats his place.

He jeers at crowded city, heeds no shouts from a driver.

The mountains are his pasture --- seeking out every patch of green.

Will the wild ox agree to serve you, or spend the nights at your manger?

Will you tie the wild ox with a rope in a trench -[-- will he plow the valleys after you?

Will you depend on him for his great strength and will to him the fruits of your labor?

Can you rely on him to harvest your grain and gather in the yield of your threshing floor?

The wings of the ostrich flap away: whether the pinion of the ostrich or hawk.

When she abandons her eggs on the ground and warms them in the sand,

She forgets that a foot could brake them ---- the wild beasts may trample them;

She cruelly disowns her young and her labor is useless; she has no fear.

God has withheld wisdom from her and given her no share in understanding.

Yet when she spreads her wings high, she jeers at a horse along with the rider.

Do you give the horse his power and cover his neck with a mane?

Do you make him dart like a locust, while his thunderous snorting spreads fear?

He paws the valley, enjoys his strength, and charges into battle.

He laughs at fear and cannot be terrified; he does not retreat from the sword.

Around him rattles the quiver, flashes the spear and the javelin.

Frenzied and trembling he speeds across the ground; he is not slowed at the sound of the trumpet; at the trumpet’s call he snorts, “Aha!”

From a distance he senses the battle, the loud commands of the officers and the shouting.

Is it by your understanding that the hawk flies, that he spreads his wings southward?

Does the eagle soar at your command to build his nest up high?

On a cliff he dwells and spends the night, on the height of cliff or fortress.

Above he watches for his food; his eyes see at a distance.

His young ones drink blood; where the slain are, he circles."

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 Hast thou known the time of The bearing of the wild goats of the rock? The bringing forth of hinds thou dost mark!

2 Thou dost number the months they fulfil? And thou hast known the time of their bringing forth!

3 They bow down, Their young ones they bring forth safely, Their pangs they cast forth.

4 Safe are their young ones, They grow up in the field, they have gone out, And have not returned to them.

5 Who hath sent forth the wild ass free? Yea, the bands of the wild ass who opened?

6 Whose house I have made the wilderness, And his dwellings the barren land,

7 He doth laugh at the multitude of a city, The cries of an exactor he heareth not.

8 The range of mountains [is] his pasture, And after every green thing he seeketh.

9 Is a Reem willing to serve thee? Doth he lodge by thy crib?

10 Dost thou bind a Reem in a furrow [with] his thick band? Doth he harrow valleys after thee?

11 Dost thou trust in him because great [is] his power? And dost thou leave unto him thy labour?

12 Dost thou trust in him That he doth bring back thy seed? And [to] thy threshing-floor doth gather [it]?

13 The wing of the rattling ones exulteth, Whether the pinion of the ostrich or hawk.

14 For she leaveth on the earth her eggs, And on the dust she doth warm them,

15 And she forgetteth that a foot may press it, And a beast of the field tread it down.

16 Her young ones it hath hardened without her, In vain [is] her labour without fear.

17 For God hath caused her to forget wisdom, And He hath not given a portion To her in understanding:

18 At the time on high she lifteth herself up, She laugheth at the horse and at his rider.

19 Dost thou give to the horse might? Dost thou clothe his neck [with] a mane?

20 Dost thou cause him to rush as a locust? The majesty of his snorting [is] terrible.

21 They dig in a valley, and he rejoiceth in power, He goeth forth to meet the armour.

22 He laugheth at fear, and is not affrighted, And he turneth not back from the face of the sword.

23 Against him rattle doth quiver, The flame of a spear, and a halbert.

24 With trembling and rage he swalloweth the ground, And remaineth not stedfast Because of the sound of a trumpet.

25 Among the trumpets he saith, Aha, And from afar he doth smell battle, Roaring of princes and shouting.

26 By thine understanding flieth a hawk? Spreadeth he his wings to the south?

27 At thy command goeth an eagle up high? Or lifteth he up his nest?

28 A rock he doth inhabit, Yea, he lodgeth on the tooth of a rock, and fortress.

29 From thence he hath sought food, To a far off place his eyes look attentively,

30 And his brood gulph up blood, And where the pierced [are] -- there [is] he!

[_The Erotic Apologist]

I'm sorry --- I have to...blah...blah...blah...

There you go again--you're ignoring my question and hoping I won't notice when you give an answer that has nothing to do with what I asked.

Here's a a hypothetical example of how you deal with tough questions:

The Erotic Apologist: "Why does your god use all the same arguments that all the fake gods use?"

LittleNipper: "Because every cloud has a silver lining!"

Did it ever occur to you that Mormons, Scientologists, Hare Krishnas, and Islamists play these same games, too?

So...why does your god use the same arguments to prove his existence that all the fake gods use?

[_LittleNipper]

I'm sorry --- I have to...blah...blah...blah...

There you go again--you're ignoring my question and hoping I won't notice when you give an answer that has nothing to do with what I asked.

Here's a a hypothetical example of how you deal with tough questions:

The Erotic Apologist: "Why does your god use all the same arguments that all the fake gods use?"

LittleNipper: "Because every cloud has a silver lining!"

Did it ever occur to you that Mormons, Scientologists, Hare Krishnas, and Islamists play these same games, too?

So...why does your god use the same arguments to prove his existence that all the fake gods use?

You have it backwards. Those other religions are trying to copy Christianity, and as I have presented they all carry extra baggage that you seem totally unwilling to comprehend. Satan is a copycat ---- but as such he confuses and confounds through deception. And you seem a willing participant in his charade.

PS> I gave you answers and none suit your expectations. I wonder if you are as good at answering questions as you are at repetition.

[Guest]

You have it backwards. Those other religions are trying to copy Christianity...

Yeah, I've heard that one, too--from the Hare Krishnas.

The Hare Krishnas say their faith goes back more than ten thousand years. And then there're the Scientologists, who say their faith goes back more than seventy-five million years.

Christianity/Judaism, on the other hand, is only six thousand years old, depending on how you choose to read the Bible.

Which means Christianity is the copy cat...according to Scientology and Hare Krishna.

...and as I have presented they all carry extra baggage that you seem totally unwilling to comprehend.

Wrong--I understand everything you've said, mainly because A) Fundamentalist Christianity is very simple, and B) you're not the only Fundie on the Internet.

The mistake you're making here is that you're confusing comprehension with acceptance. In other words, you're laboring under the false impression that if one comprehends a belief, one must therefore accept said belief.

Satan is a copycat ---- but as such he confuses and confounds through deception.

Yeah, I'm still waiting for you to prove that in a way that doesn't involve:

• circular logic
• special pleading
• causal oversimplification
• begging the question
• false attribution
• bait-and-switch
• deception

To learn about rhetorical fallacies, go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

And you seem a willing participant in his charade.

Yeah--this is one of the reasons why fundamentalist sects are so dangerous, because anyone who disagrees with you is automatically going against god.

PS> I gave you answers and none suit your expectations.

Your problem here is that your "answers" are generally dependent on the rhetorical fallacies I've listed above.

To learn about rhetorical fallacies, go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

I wonder if you are as good at answering questions...

Ask away.

...as you are at repetition.

Repetition is a vital part of the learning process.

[_The Erotic Apologist]

[_huckelberry]

None of my Bibles have unicorns in the Isaiah passage. I suspect Nipper was correct on that matter, medieval speculative translation. I however did not find it enough of a concern to actually investigate further.

I am unaware of any Biblical base to call gluttony a god. It has been a commonality in American protestant speech in the past century. I think it is terribly unclear. Just how is a person supposed to detect when it is food has become more important than God? 20 pounds overweight? That might only be a misunderstanding on when it is best to stop dinner. 30 pounds overweight.

Do those over 40 pounds go to hell as apostates? (having chosen food over God)

[_LittleNipper]

None of my Bibles have unicorns in the Isaiah passage. I suspect Nipper was correct on that matter, medieval speculative translation. I however did not find it enough of a concern to actually investigate further.

I am unaware of any Biblical base to call gluttony a god. It has been a commonality in American protestant speech in the past century. I think it is terribly unclear. Just how is a person supposed to detect when it is food has become more important than God? 20 pounds overweight? That might only be a misunderstanding on when it is best to stop dinner. 30 pounds overweight.

Do those over 40 pounds go to hell as apostates? (having chosen food over God)

People can be saved in spite of their sins. However, I would suspect that 1) most people rather point at the splinters of others than to deal with their own issues (and compulsive eating, hording, or over indulging is easy to ignore). 2) If a person would rather go to a restaurant, picnic, or party instead of attending some worship service, or 3) they only go to attend some Pot Luck socials they may just have a priority problem.....

[_LittleNipper]

Job 40:1-24 (The Lord continues)

"Job, you challenged God; do you give up now or will you answer me?"

Job responds:

"I've been so foolish, Lord. What can I say? I will not attempt to reply.

I've already said more than I should."

Out of the twister the Lord replied to Job again.

"Straighten up man and answer my questions.

Are you trying to prove that I am unjust— putting me in the wrong and making yourself righteous?"

Are you as strong as I am? Is your roar as loud as mine?

So, stand up in your own honor and pride; cover yourself with majesty and glory.

Look at the proud; pour out your anger and humble them.

Yes, observe them and bring them down; squash the wicked wherever they are.

Bury them all in the dirt; bind them in the realm of the dead.

Then I will be the first to praise you, and you acquired your own salvation.

Look at the Behemoth (A likely candidate dinosaur --- Name is a "modern" day invention; however, the creature described fits) I created both him and you.

He eats grass like a cow, his strength is in his loins, and his belly muscles!

He flexes his tail which is like a cedar, and his legs muscels are strong.

His bones are like pipes of brass, and iron bars.

He is the paramount of all the creatures! Only his Creator can defeat him.

Grass to feed him grows on the hills where wild beasts play.

He lies down in the shade, and hides among the reeds of the swamp.

The willows by the stream provide him shelter in their shade.

He is not afraid of a raging river; he is calm when the Jordan splashes in his face.

Can anyone catch him off guard to capture him? Who can catch his snout in a trap?"


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And Jehovah doth answer Job, and saith: --

2 Is the striver with the Mighty instructed? The reprover of God, let him answer it.

3 And Job answereth Jehovah, and saith: --

4 Lo, I have been vile, What do I return to Thee? My hand I have placed on my mouth.

5 Once I have spoken, and I answer not, And twice, and I add not.

6 And Jehovah answereth Job out of the whirlwind, and saith: --

7 Gird, I pray thee, as a man, thy loins, I ask thee, and cause thou Me to know.

8 Dost thou also make void My judgment? Dost thou condemn Me, That thou mayest be righteous?

9 And an arm like God hast thou? And with a voice like Him dost thou thunder?

10 Put on, I pray thee, excellency and loftiness, Yea, honour and beauty put on.

11 Scatter abroad the wrath of thine anger, And see every proud one, and make him low.

12 See every proud one -- humble him, And tread down the wicked in their place.

13 Hide them in the dust together, Their faces bind in secret.

14 And even I -- I do praise thee, For thy right hand giveth salvation to thee.

15 Lo, I pray thee, Behemoth, that I made with thee: Grass as an ox he eateth.

16 Lo, I pray thee, his power [is] in his loins, And his strength in the muscles of his belly.

17 He doth bend his tail as a cedar, The sinews of his thighs are wrapped together,

18 His bones [are] tubes of brass, His bones [are] as a bar of iron.

19 He [is] a beginning of the ways of God, His Maker bringeth nigh his sword;

20 For food do the high hills bear for him, And all the beasts of the field play there.

21 Under shades he lieth down, In a secret place of reed and mire.

22 Cover him do shades, [with] their shadow, Cover him do willows of the brook.

23 Lo, a flood oppresseth -- he doth not haste, He is confident though Jordan Doth come forth unto his mouth.

24 Before his eyes doth [one] take him, With snares doth [one] pierce the nose?

[_LittleNipper]

Job 41:1-34 The Lord continues:

"Can you capture Leviathan on a fishhook or tie its tongue down with a rope?

Can you put a cord through its nose or hook its jaw?

Will it beg for mercy and speak to you quietly?

Will it make an agreement with you and let you make it a slave for life?

Can you make a pet of Leviathan as a little bird or put it on a harness for your girls?

Will merchants try to bargain with you regarding it? Will they divvy it up among other merchants?

Can you stick darts through its skin or poke its head full of fishing spears?

If you lay a hand on it, you will never forget the confrontation, and you will never do it again!

There is no possibility of defeating it; just seeing it causes people to faint.

No one is brave enough try to anger it.

So, why should anyone stand up to me?

No one has handed me anything that I must pay back, because everything under the sky belongs to me.

I will speak of Leviathan’s parts, power and proportioned body.

No one can rip off its outer hide or poke through its double armor.

No one can pry its great jaws apart; they are filled with gruesome teeth.

It has rows of shields on its back that tightly lock together.

Each shield is so close to the next one that air is blocked.

They are joined tightly to each other; they lock together and cannot be separated.

When it snorts, flashes of light are thrown, and its eyes are brilliant as the dawn.

Flames shoot from its mouth; sparks fly.

Steam pours out of its nose, as if coming from a cauldron of boiling reeds.

Its breath sets coals aflame, and flames spew from its mouth.

Its neck is powerful. People are afraid and flee.

Its scales are tightly joined; they are firm and cannot be moved.

Its chest is as solid as rock, even as hard as a grinding stone.

The powerful fear its terrible looks and draw back fearfully as it moves.

The sword that strike it do not harm it, the same is true of arrows, darts, and spears.

It treats iron as straw and bronze metal as rotten wood.

It does not run from arrows; stones from slings are like chaff to it.

Clubs are as pieces of straw to it, and it is unfazed when man shakes a spear at it.

The underside of its body is like broken pieces of pottery. It leaves a trail in the mud like a threshing board.

It makes the deep sea bubble like a boiling pot; it stirs up the sea like a pan of oil.

When it swims, it leaves it cause a sparkling wake, that makes the sea appear as if it had a streak of white hair.

Nothing on earth equals it; it is a fearless creature.

It snubs all those who are proud; it lords over all proud creatures.”


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 Dost thou draw leviathan with an angle? And with a rope thou lettest down -- his tongue?

2 Dost thou put a reed in his nose? And with a thorn pierce his jaw?

3 Doth he multiply unto thee supplications? Doth he speak unto thee tender things?

4 Doth he make a covenant with thee? Dost thou take him for a servant age-during?

5 Dost thou play with him as a bird? And dost thou bind him for thy damsels?

6 (Feast upon him do companions, They divide him among the merchants!)

7 Dost thou fill with barbed irons his skin? And with fish-spears his head?

8 Place on him thy hand, Remember the battle -- do not add!

9 Lo, the hope of him is found a liar, Also at his appearance is not one cast down?

10 None so fierce that he doth awake him, And who [is] he before Me stationeth himself?

11 Who hath brought before Me and I repay? Under the whole heavens it [is] mine.

12 I do not keep silent concerning his parts, And the matter of might, And the grace of his arrangement.

13 Who hath uncovered the face of his clothing? Within his double bridle who doth enter?

14 The doors of his face who hath opened? Round about his teeth [are] terrible.

15 A pride -- strong ones of shields, Shut up -- a close seal.

16 One unto another they draw nigh, And air doth not enter between them.

17 One unto another they adhere, They stick together and are not separated.

18 His sneezings cause light to shine, And his eyes [are] as the eyelids of the dawn.

19 Out of his mouth do flames go, sparks of fire escape.

20 Out of his nostrils goeth forth smoke, As a blown pot and reeds.

21 His breath setteth coals on fire, And a flame from his mouth goeth forth.

22 In his neck lodge doth strength, And before him doth grief exult.

23 The flakes of his flesh have adhered -- Firm upon him -- it is not moved.

24 His heart [is] firm as a stone, Yea, firm as the lower piece.

25 From his rising are the mighty afraid, From breakings they keep themselves free.

26 The sword of his overtaker standeth not, Spear -- dart -- and lance.

27 He reckoneth iron as straw, brass as rotten wood.

28 The son of the bow doth not cause him to flee, Turned by him into stubble are stones of the sling.

29 As stubble have darts been reckoned, And he laugheth at the shaking of a javelin.

30 Under him [are] sharp points of clay, He spreadeth gold on the mire.

31 He causeth to boil as a pot the deep, The sea he maketh as a pot of ointment.

32 After him he causeth a path to shine, One thinketh the deep to be hoary.

33 There is not on the earth his like, That is made without terror.

34 Every high thing he doth see, He [is] king over all sons of pride.