Blasphemy or Biblical?

[_Albion]

PS. Now your interpretation of the English language Trump's the Oxford Dictionary. You truly are amazing gdemetz. While not used as much in American English, the word "besides" is generally more often used in the mother country of the language where it never, ever means equal as it didn't at the time of King James. Another stretch on your part, I am afraid.

[_subgenius]

...God here clearly dispels any notion of gods either before him or after him. Elsewhere in Isaiah he evens asks "are there any other gods beside me. I know not any."

You seemingly avoid the context of those verses, as they are directed precisely to idolaters.
So, while you might suppose that Isiah "Trump's" Psalms, it in fact does not, for they are two different matters altogether.
I think more applicable to the topic are verses such as:
Genesis 3:22 (and Genesis 3:5) where God clearly asserts man's ability to become "like us" - this is particularly important in understanding the key characteristic of God by how HE transcends immortality (reinforced throughout the Old Testament) - and clearly we are to be afforded the same characteristic.
or as Christ asserts in Matthew 5:48 about being perfect as God is perfect
or what about Romans 8:17, clearly we are "heirs to God" just as Christ is...
and furthermore
1 John 3:2, Ephesians 4:24, Revelations 3:21, etc...


While i understand the humble nature of our faith, there is no reason to believe or conclude that Heavenly Father intends for us to be spiritually stagnant. This idea is in no way contrary to the expressions one sees in many places of the Old Testament, like Deut 4:35. Besides I propose that you may not understand the subtleties of the Old Testament God and the New Testament God and how that "progression" has informed true doctrine.

[_Tobin]

I'd like to see the scripture that states we will become God and do what God has done. If that is true, are we to become mortal again after we die and come down - suffer as Christ did, and save a world? The notion that man can do what God has done and become what God is is ludicrous. Man sins, God does not. God saves us, we cannot save ourselves. It is that simple. Man is not God nor ever will be.

[_Albion]

I fully understand the context. However, they are pretty clear statements of fact about God's status with regard to any other god, be they idols or gods in embryo as gdemetz argues.

[_Tobin]

I fully understand the context. However, they are pretty clear statements of fact about God's status with regard to any other god, be they idols or gods in embryo as gdemetz argues.

Let's concede they are right (which I agree with you that they aren't). How do they possibly explain how we will become Christ and do what Christ did? The whole concept of man becoming God is wrong. It is a solemn mockery of God and nullifies Christ's sacrifice. It is truely anti-Christian.

Look. I'm a Mormon and have studied the scriptures extensively. They do not teach man can become or do what God has done. It is a false, evil doctrine and makes no sense. Now, I do agree man can be saved. Man can return and live with God. Man can be exalted. And we may yet do many great and wonderful things under the guidance of God. But, we will worship God and do what God tells us to do. We can never and will never become Gods unto ourselves.

[_Albion]

How are you using the term exalted?

[_Tobin]

How are you using the term exalted?

exalted - raised/elevated by God

[_Albion]

I guess I am suspicious of the use of the word because of its connotation within Mormon theology. I think that perhaps within Christian orthodoxy salvation and exaltation might mean something similar. Orthodoxy teaches that man can do nothing to earn his salvation, that it is entirely through grace (God's unmerited favor) by faith in Christ and his saving work on the cross. Only the righteous can dwell in the presence of God and since we have none of our own (our works are but filthy rags) we can only stand before God clothed in a righteousness imputed to us from Christ through our faith/trust in him. In this sense, I believe we are indeed exalted , lifted up, by God's amazing grace. Exaltation is not a word heard often within orthodox circles and I certainly would not accept its use in any sense that suggests it puts us on a par with the exalted status of God. Thanks for the clarification.

[_Tobin]

I guess I am suspicious of the use of the word because of its connotation within Mormon theology. I think that perhaps within Christian orthodoxy salvation and exaltation might mean something similar. Orthodoxy teaches that man can do nothing to earn his salvation, that it is entirely through grace (God's unmerited favor) by faith in Christ and his saving work on the cross. Only the righteous can dwell in the presence of God and since we have none of our own (our works are but filthy rags) we can only stand before God clothed in a righteousness imputed to us from Christ through our faith/trust in him. In this sense, I believe we are indeed exalted , lifted up, by God's amazing grace. Exaltation is not a word heard often within orthodox circles and I certainly would not accept its use in any sense that suggests it puts us on a par with the exalted status of God. Thanks for the clarification.

I don't dispute being saved by grace at all. Many Mormons that teach salvation through works have it completely backwards. We are saved by grace and because we are saved and love God - good works follow. The biggest problem I have with most Mormons are they are so concerned with doing what they think God commands, they let that get in the way of the spirit and allowing God to lift us up and commune with God's spirit. This prevents them from progressing and growing closer to the Lord. I believe that is why you find so many that exclude others and are mean spirited in the LDS Church.

[_Albion]

I am glad to read your declaration on salvation by grace which I believe is so fundamental to the basics of Christianity. I believe that having an assurance of salvation through Christ alone by God's matchless grace represents in essence the "truth that makes us free". God's saving grace frees us "from" the rules and regulations of law and empowers us "to" freely live for him as that grace enables.