Albion wrote:Jo, I prefer to think of perfection in terms of holiness and since I believe only God to be truly holy I do not think it is an attainable goal in the sense that he is holy. Even if we humans think we can live rules and regulations to the letter scripture makes it clear that we cannot. We may think we can conquer sin, rise above it, but I think we delude ourselves...who among us can ever say that we have never envied, never fudged the truth, never cheated and so on and so on? And if we are honest we know that we continue to do it?
Albion,
I am overwhelmed not only by Father's love for us; but also by Christ's love for us. Without Christ's Atonement, there would have been no "way" provided for us to be able to return to God's presence. I also see Christ and His Father as being Holiness incomprehensible to our finite physical minds. At the same time, we are taught Jesus' prayer:
John 17:16-26 (KJV)
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Oh, how beautiful is this prayer!!! How revealing is this prayer!!! I would offer to you that both Father and Christ think much more highly of you than you will allow yourself to believe about yourself.
. And remember, to be guilty of one infraction of the law is to be guilty of all.
I heartily disagree with your interpretation of that passage. Such a holy God, loving God, merciful God, just God, does NOT see guilt of minor infractions of His commandments to be comparable to the spilling of innocent blood or the unpardonable sin.
What is our human effort to keep the law and battle against the sin we continually commit all about? Surely it's about finding peace with God...a right relationship with him. Well, I believe the good news of the gospel is that Jesus has provided a way to that peace...he has overcome sin and death which is its reward and through faith in him we share in his overcoming and are made right before God...just as if we never sinned in the first place.
We are here to learn - to be reborn of the Spirit. Your belief system sounds very beautiful; but when it comes down to seeing what your belief system looks like, so much of the Bible's teachings need to be overlooked and dismissed. You have even admitted that you do not know or understand how it is that a person who does not know the law cannot be held accountable to the law. Likewise, you have admitted that you do not know or understand how it is that a person who is not under the law can be saved by his works. Meanwhile, you still cling to the belief that our works cannot save us. Clearly, there is a disconnect here.
We are justified by faith, not by our works...so if we are perceived by God to be as if we are without sin, what then is the purpose of works in the equation? Will they make us more justified...will God look upon us as more justified...are there degrees of justification.
See my previous paragraph. Maybe you will begin to ponder and pray concerning what is still a mystery to you, rather than just admitting there remains a mystery in your mind. God is waiting to reveal All Truth to you.
As I have tried so hard to convey on this board....Christians should be engaged in good works and keeping the commandments but they are the fruits of a redeemed sinner's life and not the means to become redeemed.
I do not believe that redemption is the same thing as having had All Truth revealed to you.
Now I do understand how Mormon theology adds on the idea of exaltation to some higher heaven but I cannot accept that as Biblical. So if the salvation that faith in Jesus gives is only resurrection what does faith have to do with it since everyone will be resurrected with or without faith?
As I have already explained, this theology is NOT uniquely Mormon. Indeed it IS taught in the Bible - just not to your satisfaction. Nor does this theology yet agree with the parts of Truth which have so far been revealed to you. You do not need to be afraid of Truth. The more Truth you have revealed to your spirit, the more free your spirit will be. Your evolvement in understanding will become as a perpetual motion of unfolding unto and into Oneness.
Albion, just think about how full your joy is right at this moment---the peace you already experience in your relationship with God even though you admit you do not yet know everything!!! Is it not most awesome??!! Now, try to imagine how much greater and incomprehensible your joy will be when you ARE One with God!!! Of course, this is currently impossible to imagine; though I believe it helps explain why it is that while we are in the flesh, our body needs to go through a process of transfiguration/transformation in order to be able to withstand God's visitations. Otherwise, our physical body would melt in the Light and be destroyed; our physical body is not yet able to comprehend fulness of Light!
In the end times, when Jesus returns and the earth is renewed, faith will no longer be required. Likewise, as each of us becomes fully awakened and our spirit is completely born of the Spirit, we will be able to see the Kingdom of God. Faith will no longer be required at that time either!
I am excited for you; just as I am excited for me and all others. Thank you so very much for taking so much of your time to share with me. I have grown to love and appreciate you so much more than when I first met you here on Mormon Discussions!
Love,
jo
here and around