What's Your Take on Near Death Experiences?

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_Inconceivable
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Post by _Inconceivable »

Inconceivable wrote:New here. Hi all.

I've been incredibly lost since taking volumnous doses of the red pill (blue pill?) these last couple years. Seeking a place to turn for a semblance of truth in a spiritual foundation, it occurred to me that if anyone had a bead on afterlife, purpose of life, nature of God etc. it would be someone that left and came back.

I read "Lessons from the Light" by Kenneth Ring and a few others over the last six months. Most of the content parallels the comments above. I'll have to say that the information has brought me a thread of hope and peace that perhaps there is an all loving God or light, and that things happen for a reason and we have a higher purpose - and it's all about love.

That being said, I am still perplexed and maybe you could offer me an explanation: Why, why why?? ..would a loving God or light spend the last 30+ years of my life giving me clues that the LDS church is TRUE, when, in the past few years I have painfully discovered that many of these clues were what I KNOW to be "false positives"? How can I trust this loving light - in this light? Particularly since I am finding myself alone and potentially losing my family over this, my war of conscience.


I wanted to bump up my own post hoping to get some thoughts on the matter from some of you. Thanks.
_Fortigurn
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Post by _Fortigurn »

Inconceivable wrote:
Inconceivable wrote:New here. Hi all.

I've been incredibly lost since taking volumnous doses of the red pill (blue pill?) these last couple years. Seeking a place to turn for a semblance of truth in a spiritual foundation, it occurred to me that if anyone had a bead on afterlife, purpose of life, nature of God etc. it would be someone that left and came back.

I read "Lessons from the Light" by Kenneth Ring and a few others over the last six months. Most of the content parallels the comments above. I'll have to say that the information has brought me a thread of hope and peace that perhaps there is an all loving God or light, and that things happen for a reason and we have a higher purpose - and it's all about love.

That being said, I am still perplexed and maybe you could offer me an explanation: Why, why why?? ..would a loving God or light spend the last 30+ years of my life giving me clues that the LDS church is TRUE, when, in the past few years I have painfully discovered that many of these clues were what I KNOW to be "false positives"? How can I trust this loving light - in this light? Particularly since I am finding myself alone and potentially losing my family over this, my war of conscience.


I wanted to bump up my own post hoping to get some thoughts on the matter from some of you. Thanks.


I believe the easy answer to your question is that neither God nor 'the light' spent the last 30+ years of your life giving you clues that the LDS church is true.
Lazy research debunked: bcspace x 4 | maklelan x 3 | Coggins7 x 5 (by Mr. Coffee x5) | grampa75 x 1 | whyme x 2 | rcrocket x 2 | Kerry Shirts x 1 | Enuma Elish x 1|
_Some Schmo
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Post by _Some Schmo »

I've had what seemed like incredibly long lucid dreams in between hits of the snooze button on my alarm clock. It doesn't take much time nor prompting to have powerful, vivid visions inside your own head.

NDE's are just something else super naturalists like to latch onto to help reinforce their fantasies about the nature of the universe.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Some Schmo wrote:I've had what seemed like incredibly long lucid dreams in between hits of the snooze button on my alarm clock. It doesn't take much time nor prompting to have powerful, vivid visions inside your own head.

NDE's are just something else super naturalists like to latch onto to help reinforce their fantasies about the nature of the universe.


Some Schmo! It is so great to see you!!!!

Welcome to the board!!!!

:)
_Some Schmo
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Post by _Some Schmo »

liz3564 wrote: Some Schmo! It is so great to see you!!!!

Welcome to the board!!!!

:)


Thanks liz! Great to see you too!
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_grampa75
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Re: What's Your Take on Near Death Experiences?

Post by _grampa75 »

Confed wrote:Am reading an LDS book called The Messaage and wondered if anyone has any opinions on NDEs. LDS NDEs reflect LDS beliefs, which are to be expected, but do Hindus have similar experiences where they're greeted by a bunch of holy cows? (Sorry, couldn't resist...). But you get my drift. Are these delusions? Do folks who call Mormons "cultists" have NDEs where their religious beliefs are reinforced? Where Mormons might see Joseph Smith or Brigham Young running around in Paradise, others might see them in the other place. It's always been fascinating to read about such things.

by the way, has anyone else on this board ever have one of these experiences?


I personally never had a NDE but I was in charge of around 1000 men in Korea and Vietnam and have heard literally hundreds of NDE and some experiences of people not even near death but have talked to some of their family who had died.

I am just not sure about these experiences and really don't put much stock in them, even though my cousin, (Kieth Burt) who was killed on the Lisitania, when it sank, going to Argentina was supposed to have talked to my uncle in the Cardston, Alberta temple some years ago. This story is recorded in a book that was written called, "Life Everlasting" by a man by the name of Corethers; if that is spelled right. But personally I don't need any witness like that nor do I ask for one. I believe it would detract from the relationship I already have with the Holy Spirit.

The one coincidence I did think was unusual was when Kieth was called on a mission to Argentina but drowned before he got to the mission that my son was sent to the exact same place on his mission as Kieth some 50 years later.

I did like the bit about the cows. LOL

grampa75
Paul W. Burt
_Ezias
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Post by _Ezias »

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Last edited by Anonymous on Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
_gramps
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Re: Drug induced NDE experiences

Post by _gramps »

Ezias wrote:
I found it very interesting that the article above mentions other hallucinogenic drugs as well. Many, many years ago (I would never do this now) I experimented with psylocibin mushrooms (I picked them myself near my home). I ingested way too many (although fatal overdose is not possible) and had what people refer to as a "bad trip". Basically I went to hell, outer darkness, so to speak. I knew I was on drugs, so I knew I wasn't dead, however, I believed that I could possibly die and stay there permanently. It was a horrible but also very educational and "mind expanding" experience. I prayed to be rescued from this hell so that I would not end up there permanently and was rescued by an unseen force (angel?) and brought back to physical reality and the intensity of the experience waned. The whole trip lasted 18 hours. Afterwards I was left to ponder whether or not the spiritual aspect of the experience was real, or just chemicals in my brain. During the experience, It seemed that this spiritual reality I was experiencing was more real and more eternal than our normal physical reality.

This experience (like many NDE's) permanently changed my life. I had a more profound understanding of the difference between good and evil and their place in the universe. I became extremely interested in anything that had to do with religion, or other psychic or spiritual phenomena. I began studying religions of the world, including the religion of my upbringing, LDS. (Not LSD) :) To this day the question still rests on my mind: was I really having a spiritual experience, or was all of this just a chemical reaction going on with my brain?


If anybody is curious what this experience was like I know of a song that somewhat acurately portrays the experience. It is called
Goggles by the Melvins, from their album called Stag. I don't have a link directly to it but you can listen to it free on www.napster.com . Click on "I'm not ready for napster yet" and then create a free user name and password, and you can log on and look up Melvins. You can't download the song but you can listen to a streamed version for free.

What is interesting about the song is the structure and instruments, not necessary the lyrics (you probably won't understand them anyway). I have found many parallels to my experience in psychedelic music, from the Doors to Nirvanna, to Alice in Chains (the song Again off the Album Grind is a good portrayal of a bad trip too).

Alice in Chains is interesting because Alice in Wonderland has a strong overtone of psychedelic mushroom use. Alice in "Chains" instead of "Wonderland" is interesting, depicting a bad trip.

Too bad the lead singers to 3 of those bands I mentioned died young, they were genious artists. God rest their souls.

Just for the record I highly recommend NOT expirementing with drugs.


Hi Ezias,

I guess one of my pet peeves is when one lumps all "drugs" together when discussing which are better or worse, etc. They are so different, one from the other, that I find a statement such as "...I highly recommend NOT expirementing [sic] with drugs" rather meaningless.

I would never recommend someone taking an entheogen for the first time without an experienced "guide." With a guide, however, I highly recommend them for some people. Personally, I wouldn't recommend one trying heroin, as well as, a few other substances, but that is just my personal opinion. To each his own.

The problem with mushrooms is that the concentrations of the active ingredient in the mushroom (psilocybin) can be so different from one mushroom to the next (even though they are standing right next to each other) that one doesn't know how much they are getting. Hence, their unreliability. This problem can be overcome by grinding the (dried) mushrooms in a grinder and then determining the proper dosage one experience (1 gram) at a time.

The other problem with mushrooms is that there are many different kinds (some grow in s**t and some grow in the forest and they each have varying amounts of the active ingredient.

Given those parameters, one should be very careful and know what they are taking. Hence, the importance of a guide. I have had many wonderful experiences and a few bad experiences with mushrooms, so I have a little experience with them.

I have never had a "bad trip" with LSD or ecstacy or ayahuasca or peyote.

Set (mental expectations) and setting (physical and social environment) are the two most important things to remember when trying these substances, assuming purity and proper dosage. The problem with most who take these substances is that they don't take them in the proper set or setting and don't even know at times whether they are actually taking what they think they are taking. This is due in large part to pushing them underground and demonizing them as a result.

Entheogens have provided me with some of the most special experiences I have ever had. I've never regretted trying them.

Stop the demonization. Demonization causes more problems than it solves, in the long term.

Just my .02.
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
Adrian Beverland
_Ezias
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Post by _Ezias »

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Last edited by Anonymous on Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Fortigurn
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Post by _Fortigurn »

I find it ironic that religion is derided as escapism for the weakminded with the term 'the opiate of the masses', whilst those who practice escapism with literal opiates (and equivalent psychotropic chemicals), are hailed as visionaries, leaders, and social pioneers.
Lazy research debunked: bcspace x 4 | maklelan x 3 | Coggins7 x 5 (by Mr. Coffee x5) | grampa75 x 1 | whyme x 2 | rcrocket x 2 | Kerry Shirts x 1 | Enuma Elish x 1|
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