DCP - your June 4 Mormon Times article on John Whitmer

[_madeleine]

Maybe "sword" is metaphorical.

[_Daniel Peterson]

This is what's known as "moving the goal posts."

Not at all.

I've never seen a gold paint (not involving actual gold) that would convince me for even a millisecond that it was actual gold. Have you? And if there is a new paint that might do so, I have real doubt that it existed in 1829. At least Dan Vogel tries to invoke hallucination or imagination at this point.

Bumped to see if Mr Avoidance C Peterson will answer the questions or just continue his merry, well known dance, of fudge and dodge and duck and dive....

I've actually already answered them.

But I should inform you of my new policy, arrived at last week: I won't bother answering people (e.g., CamWC4ME, Joseph, and their ilk) who can't or won't be minimally civil.

I'm amazed at your ability to dismiss the Book of Mormon when it suits your ad hoc defense. In Helamen they have "All manner of precious metals" and "precious things of every kind and art." I suppose you think that must mean they used stone tools to dig for gold and silver, and once they got it they just let it sit lumped in with the surrounding minerals, not having the ability to refine it.

I've dismissed nothing. I've simply pointed out that the use of gold as a medium of barter or decoration at one period in no way entails the conclusion that steel swords were generally used in all periods.

Good catch!

Not really. Pretty standard-issue, actually.

The first three passages talk about the situation during the very first generation in the New World.

One of them says that Nephi made swords "after the manner of" the sword of Laban, without clarifying what that means. (Does it entail "precious steel"? A "pure gold hilt"? For every sword of every Nephite? Perhaps also a monogrammed "L" on the hilt?)

The fourth simply says that King Benjamin, roughly four centuries later (and nearly two centuries prior to the great destructions and disruptions of 3 Nephi), retains the sword of Laban and uses it as part of his royal military regalia, but it says nothing about manufacturing anything like it. Where is it thereafter?

If you don't believe that sophisticated technologies could be and commonly were lost in the ancient world, you need to read more.

[_Buffalo]

Maybe "sword" is metaphorical.

As horse is to tapir, sword is to ______

a. wooden club
b. spaghetti noodle
c. laser cannon
d. pottery

[_Buffalo]

This is what's known as "moving the goal posts."

Not at all.

I've never seen a gold paint (not involving actual gold) that would convince me for even a millisecond that it was actual gold. Have you? And if there is a new paint that might do so, I have real doubt that it existed in 1829. At least Dan Vogel tries to invoke hallucination or imagination at this point.

I would be able to say, like the witnesses, that it had the "appearance" of gold.

[_Buffalo]

One of them says that Nephi made swords "after the manner of" the sword of Laban, without clarifying what that means. (Does it entail "precious steel"? A "pure gold hilt"? For every sword of every Nephite? Perhaps also a monogrammed "L" on the hilt?)[/b]

Is this intended to be a serious argument?

To illustrate my point: The Book of Mormon tells us that Jesus is the son of God without telling us what that means. The son of which god? And "son" in what way? Blood relative? Bastard son? Adopted son? Godson? It's impossible to tell.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I would be able to say, like the witnesses, that it had the "appearance" of gold.

Sorry about your vision problems.

There's still hope, though. Medicine is making very rapid advances on many fronts.

[_Buffalo]

I would be able to say, like the witnesses, that it had the "appearance" of gold.

Sorry about your vision problems.

There's still hope, though. Medicine is making very rapid advances on many fronts.

This has the appearance of duckness:



That doesn't mean I think it's a real duck. It just means it has that appearance.

[Guest]

Maybe "sword" is metaphorical.

As horse is to tapir, sword is to ______

a. wooden club
b. spaghetti noodle
c. laser cannon
d. pottery

I'll take c....

Looking forward to seeing "Cowboys And Aliens", why not Mayans And Stormtroopers.

But then, I was thinking when I wrote that

e. The power of God.

:)

Just trying out this Mormonism as metaphor that a Mormon on another forum is using....Kolob is a metaphor, in case you didn't know. ROTFL. I say, why not make everything in Mormonism a metaphor? Just makes Mormon apologetics so much easier. Blood atonement? It's a metaphor. Adam-God? It's a metaphor. The same metaphor (e).

Works really cool.

[_madeleine]

This has the appearance of duckness:



That doesn't mean I think it's a real duck. It just means it has that appearance.

Maybe "duck" is a metaphor.

[_Corpsegrinder]

If you don't believe that sophisticated technologies could be and commonly were lost in the ancient world, you need to read more.

They were also commonly rediscovered or reinvented by later generations. Yet you seem to argue that later generations of Nephites remained aware of steel's properties but were unable to recreate it.

What does the Book of Mormon have to say about the disastrous loss of such a crucial technology?