Stay Strong Saints

[_Polygamy-Porter]

You are the one who has accused Joseph without proof, and you are asking me to prove a negative? Since you accused him, then you be the one to produce the facts.

Wow, you really don't know very much about Mormon origins, history, and theology.

FACT: In the year 1833, the state of Illinois enacted a law forbidding the practice of more than one spouse.

"Sec 121. Bigamy consists in the having of two wives or two husbands at one and the same time, knowing that the former husband or wife is still alive. If any person or persons within this State, being married, or who shall hereafter marry, do at any time marry any person or persons, the former husband or wife being alive, the person so offending shall, on conviction thereof, be punished by a fine, not exceeding one thousand dollars, and imprisoned in the penitentiary, not exceeding two years. It shall not be necessary to prove either of the said marriages by the register or certificate thereof, or other record evidence; but the same may be proved by such evidence as is admissible to prove a marriage in other cases, and when such second marriage shall have taken place without this state, cohabitation in this state after such second marriage shall be deemed the commission of the crime of bigamy, and the trial in such case may take place in the county where such cohabitation shall have occurred."
Revised Laws of Illinois, 1833, p.198-99

FACT: Smith said that the membership of the Mormon church obeyed the laws of the land.

"We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." - 12th Article of Faith, written by the Prophet Joseph Smith

FACT: Joseph Smith took on many plural wives while in Illinois. See D&C 132, FamilySearch.org, and HC.

FACT: Joseph Smith DENIED the practice of plural wives and FORBADE it in canonized scripture:

"Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again."(1835 edition of D&C 101:4 History of the Church, vol. 2, pg. 247)

So there you have it young fresh member,(perhaps not young but unwitting and fresh), your precious new hero, Joseph Smith, not only lied and broke the laws of the land concerning plural wives, but committed sin against his own canonized scriptures!

[_gdemetz]

Although I understand their reasons for it, I also don't like the fact that polygamy was kept secret. However, Joseph's "spiritual" marriages for the afterlife had nothing to do with the law of the land. The actual practice of polygamy, after a law was passed prohibiting it, did, and resulted in many problems for the saints.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Although I understand their reasons for it, I also don't like the fact that polygamy was kept secret. However, Joseph's "spiritual" marriages for the afterlife had nothing to do with the law of the land. The actual practice of polygamy, after a law was passed prohibiting it, did, and resulted in many problems for the saints.

Good points, however you need to ask why it was called "polygamy" and "plural wives" if it had nothing to do with being in a marital relationship.

Smith also had men sealed to him, but they did not call that gay polygamy.

[_gdemetz]

In the case of Joseph he had women sealed to him for the afterlife, or what is termed "spiritual" marriages. The practice of earthly polygamy was what became legally prohibited.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

In the case of Joseph he had women sealed to him for the afterlife, or what is termed "spiritual" marriages. The practice of earthly polygamy was what became legally prohibited.

Became??

You really need to work on understanding dates and timelines.

Polygamy was illegal in Illinois BEFORE the Mormons showed up. 1833 law, remember??

And it officially is not referred to as "spiritual marriages".

D&C 132 Heading reads:

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

[_gdemetz]

The "spiritual" wives term is a term which is used by some in the church and even some nonmembers when referring to marriages that would only be in effect in the afterlife. However, admittedly, one problem was that even though Joseph Smith supported the law of the land, as indicated in the Articles of Faith, he felt that these spiritual marriages were above and beyond the law, and therefore he felt no obligation to fulfill the normal civil procedures that the law required.

[_Drifting]

The "spiritual" wives term is a term which is used by some in the church and even some nonmembers when referring to marriages that would only be in effect in the afterlife. However, admittedly, one problem was that even though Joseph Smith supported the law of the land, as indicated in the Articles of Faith, he felt that these spiritual marriages were above and beyond the law, and therefore he felt no obligation to fulfill the normal civil procedures that the law required.

Why isn't Fanny Alger listed as one of Joseph's wives on Family Search?

[_gdemetz]

I am much more familiar with the doctrines of the church than I am with the history, however, I believe that the reason is lack of evidence that they were ever married, although I have heard some stories about this from anti-Mormon sources. I learned a long time ago not to trust those sources since I have found a lot of incorrect information in them. If you check with FAIR, I think that they would probably not recognize her as a wife due to lack of reliable historical evidence.

[_Drifting]

I am much more familiar with the doctrines of the church than I am with the history, however, I believe that the reason is lack of evidence that they were ever married, although I have heard some stories about this from anti-Mormon sources. I learned a long time ago not to trust those sources since I have found a lot of incorrect information in them. If you check with FAIR, I think that they would probably not recognize her as a wife due to lack of reliable historical evidence.

So, if she was not a wife, what was he up to with her when Emma found the pair of them in the barn?

[_Yoda]

The "spiritual" wives term is a term which is used by some in the church and even some nonmembers when referring to marriages that would only be in effect in the afterlife. However, admittedly, one problem was that even though Joseph Smith supported the law of the land, as indicated in the Articles of Faith, he felt that these spiritual marriages were above and beyond the law, and therefore he felt no obligation to fulfill the normal civil procedures that the law required.

Why isn't Fanny Alger listed as one of Joseph's wives on Family Search?

Actually, she is. The search method in Family Search is really weird, and you have to do it just right to find it.

Take a look at my post here on another thread about Joseph and Fanny:

viewtopic.php?p=286134#p286134