Albion wrote:Neither response answers the question. If coming to earth and gaining a body is part of the process of progressing to godhood, how was Jesus a God before he did that?
Albion, apologies if I'm tangent posting. Your question is a very good question for which Mormonism has no doctrinal answer.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Albion wrote:Well Mormonism is a very legalistic religious system and it does seem to me that within that system the determining factor is how well an individual measures up to its rules and regulations to be deemed "worthy". I obviously come from a different bias but believe an individual can meet the check list of requirements that define a "worthy" (read real in my definition) Mormon without any manifestation of the HS whatsoever. It is on that basis that my argument is grounded.
As I, a Mormon, understand it. Members who worthily hold a Temple Recommend are considered "members in good standing". Members who don't hold a recommend but who are still on the Church register of members can still be considered Mormon's regardless of their levels of activity or belief. Also, any member of any religious sect that stems from the restoration of the Church and determines The Book of Mormon to be within its canon, they too should be considered Mormons.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Agreed, but in the context of the discussion they might not be considered strong Mormons or TBMs or even "worthy" Mormons and it is in this context that I made my comment.
Agreed, but in the context of the discussion they might not be considered strong Mormons or TBMs or even "worthy" Mormons and it is in this context that I made my comment.
Albion wrote:Evasive as usual. Not your personal belief, not what you think Mormonism should teach but actual Mormon belief and theology....does Mormonism teach that gaining a body is essential to eternal progression and exaltation to Godhood? It's a simple question...yes or no will do.
It isn't evasive in the least. Not all people arrive at a realization of the truth at the same rate. Members of the Mormon Church have taught false doctrine in the name of Mormonism for a long time. That doesn't mean what they are teaching is representative of the doctrine. Especially when you ask them some probing questions about it.
Now, again, in answer to your question - I am a Mormon and I have told you my view. If that blows up your false assertion, too bad. Certainly you can ask another Mormon and they may give you a different view of it. However, I seriously doubt the view that man can be God stands up to scrutiny (as I've already pointed out). Mormonism is not about becoming God. It is about doing what God asks us to do.
I have discussed this with several active Mormons who have come to the same conclusion you have regarding this topic. It's not the Sunday School answer, but I really don't think there is a proper Sunday School answer to this any longer.
Albion wrote:We are talking at cross purposes. My quote you use above was directed at the definition (the one I use is the Mormon's own definition) of a true believing Mormon. On the subject of Godhood, I am willing to accept that the Mormon position is perhaps changing. It wasn't always so..."As man is God once was...as God is, man may become." This implies more than a sampling of the divine nature.
If Mormons accept that Jesus is God, Mormons could easily interpret that to mean, "As man is Jesus once was, as Jesus is, man may become." Many Christians believe in divinization.
Except that Christians identify Jesus as God so I don't see how it makes any difference the way you phrase it. Father, Son or Holy Spirit are to Christians one God.
Albion wrote:Except that Christians identify Jesus as God so I don't see how it makes any difference the way you phrase it. Father, Son or Holy Spirit are to Christians one God.
I guess Mormons have to be considered Christian then because the Book of Mormon identifies Jesus as God.