Lemmie wrote:bomgeography wrote:The archeologist can't discredit artifacts that they themselves discovered.
They can't discredit the ways that the hopewell built earthen mound walls that they themselves described.
That can't discredit the advanced civilization the hopewell had that they did the research on.
They can't discredit their own findings on the hopewell timeline
None of those statements have anything at all to do with your original statement:bomgeo wrote:Who ever said there is no evidence for the Book of Mormon needs to rethink their stance.
And certainly your statements above have nothing at all to do with my response:historians, archaeologists, and anthropologists wrote:As scholars committed to increasing public understanding of Native American history and archaeology, we want to make it clear that...[I]n our opinion, there is no compelling archaeological or genetic evidence for a migration from the Middle East to North America a few thousand years ago, nor is there any credible scientific evidence that Old World civilizations were involved in developing Native American cultures in pre-Columbian times.
Please re-read the comments, you are missing the point. Here, try again.... In our opinion, there is no compelling evidence for the presence of Old World cultures in North America prior to the incursions of the Norse in the early 11th century.
It's been pointed out a number of times how insulting and demeaning your bizarre fabrications are to actual Native Americans and Native American history. How do you reconcile your very inappropriate assumptions, stereotyping, and racism with the behavior your religion expects of you?
Your missing my point the research that archeologist have done matches up with the Book of Mormon.
Many Native American traditions beliefs and names also match up
If you want I would like to list all the examples not just the few examples listed below
Kishkumen
An Ojibwa Indian Chief named Keeshkemun, who succeeded his father to be chief, is mentioned in Warren’s book, Ojibwa History. Keeshkemun sounds strikingly similar to Kishkumen the Gadianton leader and one of the cities mentioned in the Book of Mormon. In fact if you google Keeshkemun, Kishkumen will come up. Besides Isrealis Ojibwa Indians have the highest concentration of haplogroup X DNA.
Onidah
The Book of Mormon in Alma 47:5 states that disaffected Lamanites gathered at a hill called Onidah
There is Native American Tribe in New York called Onieda phonetically exactly the same as Onidah
Onondaga
In May and June 1834 Joseph Smith led a Mormon group (a paramilitary expedition known as Zion’s Camp) on a march from Kirtland, Ohio to Jackson County, Missouri. On June 3, while passing through west-central Illinois near Griggsville, some bones were unearthed from a mound. These bones were identified by Smith. He had vision as to who the bones belonged to.
“At about one foot deep we discovered the skeleton of a man, almost entire; and between two of his ribs we found an Indian arrow, which had evidently been the cause of his death. Subsequently the visions of the past being opened to my understanding by the Spirit of the Almighty, I discovered that the person whose skeleton was before us was a white Lamanite, a large, thickset man, and a man of God. His name was Zelph. He was a warrior and chieftain under the great prophet Onandagus, who was known from the Hill Cumorah, or eastern sea to the Rocky Mountains.”
The Prophet Onandagus is not mentioned in the Book of Mormon, but has obvious ties to the Onondaga Tribe whose traditional lands are in the state of New York.
Native American Council Tower
Mosiah 2:7
7 For the multitude being so great that king Benjamin could not teach them all within the walls of the temple, therefore he caused a tower to be erected, that thereby his people might hear the words which he should speak unto them.
“Professor Carr of its once having supported a building similar to the council-house observed by Bartram on a mound at the old Cherokee town Cowe. Both were built on mounds, both were circular, both were built on posts set in the ground at equal distances from each other, and each had a central pillar. As tending to confirm this statement of Bartram’s, the following passage may be quoted, where, speaking of Colonel Christian’s march against the Cherokee towns in 1770, Eamsey says that this officer found in the center of each town ”a circular tower rudely built and covered with dirt, 30 feet in diameter, and about 20 feet high. This tower was used as a council-house… Mr. M. C. Bead, of Hudson, Ohio, discovered similar evidences in a mound near Chattanooga, and Mr. Gerard Fowke has quite recently found the same thing in a mound at Waverly, Ohio.”
(Thomas 1889 pg. 32)
(Mooney 1902 pg. 478)
The Saying Bury the Hatchet
The Book of Mormon tells the history of the Anti-Nephi’s, a Lamanite people who no longer wanted to fight or kill other people. They made this covenant to God to longer fight by burying their weapons in the ground, never to use them again even in the case of self-defense for themselves or for their family.
The saying bury the hatchet comes from the Algonquin Indians of the Great Lakes area who also made peace by burying their weapons of war. As mentioned before, I think the Hopewell Indians are the best candidate to be the Nephites for numerous reasons - this is one of them.
The first mention of the practice in English is to an actual hatchet-burying ceremony.
Years before he gained notoriety for presiding over the Salem witch trials, Samuel Sewall wrote in 1680, “I write to you in one [letter] of the Mischief the Mohawks did; which occasioned Major Pynchon’s going to Albany, where meeting with the Sachem the[y] came to an agreement and buried two Axes in the Ground; one for English another for themselves; which ceremony to them is more significant & binding than all Articles of Peace[,] the hatchet being a principal weapon with them.”
(South Carolina and the Cherokee Nation 1785)
Treaty of Hopewell 1785, Keowee, South Carolina: signed by Col. Benjamin Hawkins, Gen. Andrew Pickens and Headman McIntosh, establishing the boundary of the Cherokee Nation. Use of the phrase ‘Bury the Hatchet: “ARTICLE 13. The hatchet shall be forever buried, and the peace given by the United States, and friendship re-established between the said states on the one part, and all the Cherokees on the other, shall be universal; and the contracting parties shall use their utmost endeavors to maintain the peace given as aforesaid, and friendship re-established.”
Native American idioms and phraseology, as described by early settlers, are consistent with the Old Testament and the Book of Mormon. Below are some examples of Native American idioms consistent with scripture. Examples are from John Heckewelder’s Manners and Customs of The Indian Nations Who Once Inhabited Pennsylvania and the Neighboring States.
Native American saying: “I will place you under my wings!”
Meaning: I will protect you at all hazards! You shall be perfectly safe, nobody shall molest you!
Scripture: 3 Nephi 10:6 O ye house of Israel whom I have spared, how oft will I gather you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if ye will repent and return unto me with full purpose of heart.
(Heckewelder pg. 139)
Native American saying: ”To bury deep in the earth” (an injury done)
Meaning: To consign it to oblivion.
Scripture: 2 Nephi 26:5 And they that kill the prophets, and the saints, the depths of the earth shall swallow them up, saith the Lord of Hosts; and mountains shall cover them.
(Heckewelder pg. 140)
Native American saying: “You have spoken with your lips only, not from the heart!”
Meaning: You endeavor to deceive me; you do not intend to do as you say!
Scripture: 2 Nephi 27:25 Forasmuch as this people draw near unto me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their hearts far from me, and their fear towards me is taught by the precepts of men.
(Heckewelder pg. 139)
Native American saying: “draw the thorns out of your feet and legs, grease your Stiffened joints with oil, and wipe the sweat off your body.”
Meaning: I make you feel comfortable after your fatiguing journey, that you may enjoy yourself while with us.
Hebrew Custom: The washing of feet is a Hebrew custom. It was the first item done when entering a house or tent. The host would provide the water and the guest would wash his own feet. If the host was wealthy, a slave would wash the feet.
Anointing of oil was used by Jews to refresh and invigorate the body. This custom is still done today by Arabians. In the example there are some similarities in the cleaning of feet and legs from thorns and the anointing of oil or grease to refresh the body.
(Heckewelder pg. 139)
