Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

[_gdemetz]

Read the writings of Dr. E. Silvestru. He is just one of many scientists who point to evidence of a great flood, and by the way, this was before the times of the pharaohs.

[_Drifting]

Read the writings of Dr. E. Silvestru. He is just one of many scientists who point to evidence of a great flood, and by the way, this was before the times of the pharaohs.

Dr. Silvestru turned to Christianity after numerous miraculous escapes from grave danger. He began regularly attending the services held by the church that his wife, Flory, attended. After he became a Christian, he knew he would have to rethink the way that some aspects of geology supposed “millions of years.” At first he tried to maintain a belief in the “Gap-Theory” of old earth creation science, but to his mind, it was an unsatisfactory way to explain the history of geologic formations. After many e-mail conversations with other creation geologists he came to believe in young earth creationism, that is to say, a literal interpretation of the Bible.

It seems the good Dr is basing his belief in a Great Food on the religious evidence found in the Bible rather than the scientific evidence that he studied for decades and decades...

You said there was 'a lot of scientific evidence' for the great flood and yet you have provided none. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zero.
Try again.

[_Buffalo]

Read the writings of Dr. E. Silvestru. He is just one of many scientists who point to evidence of a great flood, and by the way, this was before the times of the pharaohs.

A crank with no credibility. Do you know of any credible scientists advancing this viewpoint?

[_bcuzbcuz]

Read the writings of Dr. E. Silvestru. He is just one of many scientists who point to evidence of a great flood, and by the way, this was before the times of the pharaohs.

The Egyptians themselves kept records of birth and death of their pharaohs. They all lived normal life spans, quite unlike the key names of the Bible from Adam to Noah. You've got Adam, living 930 years, Seth to 912, Enosh 905, Kenan 910, Mahalalel 895, Jared 962, Lamech 777, Methusaleh living to the ripe old age of 969, which according to some, means that he lived right through the flood. That brings the flood in at 1656-8 after Adam first arrived on the scene. If you count using the Septuagint calendar, the flood comes at 2262 after Adam. Following the flood Noah lives to the age of 950. Most of these guys didn't get around to having any kids until they were a couple of hundred years old. The flood either happened at 1656 AM (Masoretic calendar), 2262 AM (Alexandrinus calendar), 2242 AM (Vaticanus calendar), 1307 AM (Samaritan Calendar) You pick! These same calendars have the time period between the flood and birth of Abraham at 292 years (Masoretic), 1072 years (Alexandrinus), 1172 years (Vaticanus), or 942 years (Samaritan). You pick!

But the calendars finally get together and date history from Abraham relatively equally saying he was born 1976 BCE (Gen. 11:26, if you're keeping track)

That puts the flood anywhere from 2268 BCE to 3148 BCE. Boy, am I ever looking forward to someone finding Noah's ark so we can carbon date the wood and get this all straightened out.

Meanwhile, in Egypt, the pharaohs from the pre-dynastic periods Scorpion I and II and Ka from around 3200 BCE meld into the first dynasty pharaohs of Menes 3080 BCE. From then on the record follows each of the pharaohs through Aha, Djer, Djet, Meretneith, Den, Anedjib, Semerkhet, Qa'a to 2860 BCE. Each pharaoh ruled for 10 or twenty years, with one apparently ruling 50 years but definitely nothing like the Judean prophets of nearly a thousand years.

The second dynasty goes from 2860 to 2727 BCE with Hotepsekhemwi (23 years), Nebra (10 years), Ninetjer (44 years), Weneg (3 years), Senedj (10 years), Sekhemib (26 years), Khasekhemwi (27 years). That brings us up to 2727 BCE. There follows a period where the dates are unsure because each new pharaoh starts the calendar over again with the year one. And apparently with no clear cut leader or maybe a time of disorder, no body keeps count. So we jump to 2686.

Still well within the framework of possible years for the flood we continue with Sanakhte (18 years), Djoser (19 years), Sekhemkhet (6 years), Khaba (6 years), Huni (24 years). That takes us to 2613 BCE and into the 4th dynasty.

Now things get interesting. We had Djoser in the last group, who built one of the earliest pyramids at Saqqara, sometime during his reign between 2630-2611 BCE and we have the most famous pyramids at Giza for Khufu (a.k.a. Cheops) 2589-2566 BCE. These dates, unlike the Bible dates, can be and have been confirmed by numerous scholars. Sneferu reigned between 2613-2589 (24 years). Khufu 2589-2566 (23 years), Djedefra 2566-2558 (8 years), Khafre (a.k.a. Chefren) 2558-2532 (26 years), Menkaure (a.k.a. Mykerinos) 2532-2504 (28 years) and Shepseskaf 2504-2500 (4 years).

If you're going to use the most common calendar of events for Biblical stories, the Masoretic calendar, which puts Adam birth at 3924 BCE, then you have pyramids standing long before the flood, at 2295 BCE. So somehow the people of Egypt built huge pyramids, then got wiped out by the flood and then went right back to building pyramids after the flood. To date 118 pyramids have been discovered in Egypt.

Isn't it strange that while the Egyptian rulers only lived about 40 to 70 years of age, the Judean prophets were living 900+ years?? Too bad nobody can confirm in any way the ages of those old prophets, other than from the stories written about them a thousand years after they had died. Is it anyway possible that in the story telling somebody streeeeetched the truth about the number of years these old guys lived?

[_Themis]

Read the writings of Dr. E. Silvestru. He is just one of many scientists who point to evidence of a great flood, and by the way, this was before the times of the pharaohs.

Maybe you could provide even one piece of evidence you find compelling, but I suggest you deal with bcuzbcuz's post. He brings up one of a mountain of problems here. How many other civilizations can we look at that did not disappear all over the world. There are so many different and independent avenues of science and evidence we can look at here that it would take many years to go over.

[Guest]

Themis, there are many accounts in many different civilizations concerning a great flood, also you can Google, "evidences of a global flood," this will give you more than one hundred pieces of scientific information that support a global flood as opposed to a local one. Secondly, I don't accept the time line of Egyptology that was given here, and I would refer you to "answerstogenesis.org," chapter 24.

[_gdemetz]

Four good reasons to accept the account of the great flood:

1) It is recorded in almost all ancient civilizations, including the Babylonian account which is very similar to the Biblical account (Please note the reference I gave which would explain the apparent discrepancies with the global flood and commonly accepted beliefs concerning Egyptian history.).

2) There are a minimum of at least one hundred pieces of scientific evidence of a global flood.

3) It has been testified of by prophets and apostles (See Genesis 6:17, 1 Peter 3:20, Alma 10:22, Ether 13:2, and Moses 7:43.).

4) It has been testified of by Jesus Christ Himself in the speech where He states that all of His words will be fulfilled (See Matthew 24:35-39.)!

So, are you now going to say that Jesus Christ is a false "Mormon" prophet also who was lying?!?

[_Drifting]

2) There are a minimum of at least one hundred pieces of scientific evidence of a global flood.

And you have provided a maximum of none...

[_ludwigm]

One good reason to not accept the myth of the great flood:
1. It doesn't happen.


*****************************************************

Four good reasons to accept the account of the great flood:
1) It is recorded in almost all ancient civilizations, including the Babylonian account which is very similar to the Biblical account (Please note the reference I gave which would explain the apparent discrepancies with the global flood and commonly accepted beliefs concerning Egyptian history.).

Who did record the Babylonian account? Did they have another Noah (+7), another ark and another pairs of animals saved?

2) There are a minimum of at least one hundred pieces of scientific evidence of a global flood.

CFR one, please.
That bozo from Romania, who investigated a few cave in his country, doesn't count.
Yes, he/she was scientist. Then prostituted himself/herself for creationism.

In our world, there are "Socrates Scholfield"s.
He has developed a machine to demonstrate the existence of God.
Patent number "US1087186". See here! Download from here, then enjoy!
The Patent Office will not let you patent a perpetual motion machine, (unless you devise and submit a working model), but will still entertain this nonsense. Your tax dollars at work.

3) It has been testified of by prophets and apostles (See Genesis 6:17, 1 Peter 3:20, Alma 10:22, Ether 13:2, and Moses 7:43.).

The words of the prophets and apostles were recorded dozens of centuries later, by unnamed - many times nonexisting - apologists.

4) It has been testified of by Jesus Christ Himself in the speech where He states that all of His words will be fulfilled (See Matthew 24:35-39.)!

Have You the youtube video or mp3 of that speech?

So, are you now going to say that Jesus Christ is a false "Mormon" prophet also who was lying?!?

No, I'm going to say that up to now we simply don't know if that noble and selfless being existed at all.

[_ludwigm]

2) There are a minimum of at least one hundred pieces of scientific evidence of a global flood.

And you have provided a maximum of none...

Should You always butt in?