Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

[_bcuzbcuz]

Themis, there are many accounts in many different civilizations concerning a great flood, also you can Google, "evidences of a global flood," this will give you more than one hundred pieces of scientific information that support a global flood as opposed to a local one. Secondly, I don't accept the time line of Egyptology that was given here, and I would refer you to "answerstogenesis.org," chapter 24.

You don't accept the timeline of Egyptology based upon Ken Ham's internet site? I read their chapter 24. They declare their belief in the Bible then reverse link everything to coincide with that belief. Cute...but far from adequate.

Try reading: http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/ne ... idence.htm

But I suggest you go back and read carefully the dates, the pharaoh's names and their years of reign. Ken ham's revised chronology has the time between Khufu to Amenemhet III as being roughly 409 years. A simple review of the chronologies of the pharaohs, as written on the walls of Egyptian temples, in stone....with apologies for missing a few years....show Khufu to Amenemhet to be between 756-769 years.

So if Ken ham is to be believed, how come his site has dropped more than 300 years from the chronology just so it would fit their pre-conceived Biblical chronology.

Check the dates yourself. One pharaoh dies, the next takes over, usually within the same year. Naturally, there were squabbles and fights amongst brothers and sisters and priests. At one point the whole kingdom divided and it took about 40 years of two kingdoms, each with their own pharaoh, before things got back to the united dual throne. Here's the complete list:

Khufu (Cheops) 2551 - 2528
Djedefre 2528 - 2520
Khafre (Chephren) 2520 - 2494
Menkaure (Mycerinus) 2490 - 2472
Shepseskaf 2472 - 2467



5th Dynasty


Userkaf 2465 - 2458
Sahure 2458 - 2446
Neferirkare Kakai 2477-2467
Shepseskare Ini 2426 - 2419
Neferefre 2419 - 2416
Niuserre Izi 2453 - 2422
Menkauhor 2422 - 2414
Djedkare Izezi 2388 - 2356
Unas 2375-2345



6th Dynasty



Teti 2345 - 2333
Pepy I (Meryre) 2332 - 2283
Merenre Nemtyemzaf 2283 2278
Pepy II (Neferkare) 2278 - 2184



FIRST INTERMEDIATE PERIOD

This was a very troubled time. There was a breakdown of centralized government, with many kings having overlapping reigns. Montuhotep established order from his capital at Thebes.

7th and 8th Dynasties


2150 - 2135

Netrikare

Menkare

Neferkare II

Neferkare III

Djedkare II

Neferkare IV

Merenhor

Menkamin I

Nikare

Neferkare V

Neferkahor

Neferkare VI

Neferkamin II

Ibi I

Neferkaure

Neferkauhor

Neferirkare II

Attested Kings about whom nothing more is known

Wadjkare

Sekhemkare

Iti

Imhotep

Isu

Iytenu



9th and 10th Dynasties


2135 - 1986

Neferkare

several kings named Kheti

Meri-Hathor (?)



Merikare 11th Dynasty



Inyotef I (Sehertawy) 2134 - 2117

Inyotef II (Wahankh) 2117-2069

Inyotef III (Nakhtnebtepnefer) 2069 - 2060



MIDDLE KINGDOM

11th Dynasty


Mentuhotep II 2055 -2004
Mentuhotep III (Sankhkare) 2004 - 1992
Mentuhotep IV (Nebtawyre) 1992 - 1987



12th Dynasty



Amenemhet I (Sehetepibre) 1991 - 1962
Senusret I (Kheperkare) 1956 - 1911
Amenemhet II (Nubkaure) 1911 - 1877
Senusret II (Khakheperre) 1877 - 1870
Senusret III (Khakaure) 1836 - 1817
Amenemhet III (Nimaatre) 1817 - 1772

[_Themis]

Themis, there are many accounts in many different civilizations concerning a great flood, also you can Google, "evidences of a global flood," this will give you more than one hundred pieces of scientific information that support a global flood as opposed to a local one. Secondly, I don't accept the time line of Egyptology that was given here, and I would refer you to "answerstogenesis.org," chapter 24.

Interesting you don't want to accept anything that would show your belief incorrect. Most civilization have flood stories. Why? Because floods happen. This would especially be true at the end of the last Ice age when the earth was warming and the ice melting. I am sure you will interpret those stories to fit your own agenda, but these civilizations somehow lived before and after.

1) It is recorded in almost all ancient civilizations, including the Babylonian account which is very similar to the Biblical account (Please note the reference I gave which would explain the apparent discrepancies with the global flood and commonly accepted beliefs concerning Egyptian history.).

You mean civilizations who existed before and after. LOL Again flood s are a common event, and stories will be com mon as well. All we need now is some literalists with the Bible to come along and interpret all other stories as referring to Noah's flood. Also The biblical flood story does not originate with them, but was borrowed. This is why similar stories exist in areas around the middle east. In fact this flood like may ancient flood stories usually are based on some large flood event from the past. The black sea was a much smaller fresh water lake with humans living around it's edges until after the ice age when melting Glaciers caused a rise in sea levels and flooded the Black sea area giving us the black sea we see today.

2) There are a minimum of at least one hundred pieces of scientific evidence of a global flood.

And when asked to give even just one you don't.

3) It has been testified of by prophets and apostles (See Genesis 6:17, 1 Peter 3:20, Alma 10:22, Ether 13:2, and Moses 7:43.).

Most of these characters are fiction, and even the ones who may not be, so what? They believed the stories that were past down to them. That does not mean they are true at all, or in every detail.

4) It has been testified of by Jesus Christ Himself in the speech where He states that all of His words will be fulfilled (See Matthew 24:35-39.)!

So? Even if we assume Jesus existed and said these words, he is just repeating a story handed down to him that he believes.

So, are you now going to say that Jesus Christ is a false "Mormon" prophet also who was lying?!?

He is a Mormon on prophet only if Joseph was not lying.

Now if he existed and said those things, I am sure he may have believed them, but some here don't seem to understand the difference between lying and saying something untrue that you believe is true.

[_bcuzbcuz]

Four good reasons to accept the account of the great flood:

1) It is recorded in almost all ancient civilizations, including the Babylonian account which is very similar to the Biblical account (Please note the reference I gave which would explain the apparent discrepancies with the global flood and commonly accepted beliefs concerning Egyptian history.).

2) There are a minimum of at least one hundred pieces of scientific evidence of a global flood.

If you do a little checking on the flood myths of the Babylonians, you'll find their story involves getting animals (although they make no mention of saving all the animals of the world) aboard a ROUND vessel. If you check with modern pictures of farming and river travel in modern day Babylonia (Iran and Iraq) you'll find pictures of these round, reed vessels used even nowadays. http://sdhammika.blogspot.se/2010/08/another-noah.html

Look up pictures of Guffa or Quffa in Google books and yu can also find other references to the Babylonian cuneiform text telling of the flood. http://www.exetermemories.co.uk/em/maritime_museum.php

[_gdemetz]

I think you guys are not reading my posts very well. I was told to name one piece of evidence again when I already mentioned whale bones found inland way above sea level, and gave a reference. In addition to this, I could give much more evidence, but I fear that I would just be wasting my time. For, as FranTalk so well stated it; scholars come in all flavors, and I may add that historians, archeologists, and scientists come in all flavors also. However, a very obvious and overwhelming bias is shown here! You seem so sure that some obscure pharaoh may have existed at the exact time when the great flood occurred, with dubious evidence which many historians have questioned, but, on the other hand, despite all the amount of much more recent historical evidence of the life and ministry of Jesus Christ, you state that He may never have existed?!? Now, who does not want to be confused by the facts?!?

[_Drifting]

2) There are a minimum of at least one hundred pieces of scientific evidence of a global flood.

And you have provided a maximum of none...

Should You always butt in?

Please accept my apologies for beating you to the punchline.

[_ludwigm]

Please accept my apologies for beating you to the punchline.

It is not a shame to be beaten by a tiger.

[_gdemetz]

Yea, I guess that something must have scared the whales so much that they actually flew inland several hundred miles and landed 600 feet above sea level!

[_ludwigm]

Yea, I guess that something must have scared the whales so much that they actually flew inland several hundred miles and landed 600 feet above sea level!

Do You know the word geology?

Scientific study of the Earth, including its composition, structure, physical properties, and history. Geology is commonly divided into subdisciplines concerned with the chemical makeup of the Earth, including the study of minerals (mineralogy) and rocks (petrology); the structure of the Earth (structural geology) and volcanic phenomena (volcanology); landforms and the processes that produce them (geomorphology and glaciology); geologic history, including the study of fossils (paleontology), the development of sedimentary strata (stratigraphy), and the evolution of planetary bodies and their satellites (astrogeology); and economic geology and its various branches, such as mining geology and petroleum geology. Some major fields closely allied to geology are geodesy, geophysics, and geochemistry. environmental geology.

For more information on geology, visit Britannica.com.

[_Drifting]

I think you guys are not reading my posts very well. I was told to name one piece of evidence again when I already mentioned whale bones found inland way above sea level, and gave a reference. In addition to this, I could give much more evidence, but I fear that I would just be wasting my time. For, as FranTalk so well stated it; scholars come in all flavors, and I may add that historians, archeologists, and scientists come in all flavors also. However, a very obvious and overwhelming bias is shown here! You seem so sure that some obscure pharaoh may have existed at the exact time when the great flood occurred, with dubious evidence which many historians have questioned, but, on the other hand, despite all the amount of much more recent historical evidence of the life and ministry of Jesus Christ, you state that He may never have existed?!? Now, who does not want to be confused by the facts?!?

From your reference on whales...

Hussey speculated that the whales swam up either the St. Lawrence or the Hudson waterways during the ice age, to the ancient Great Lakes, and then entered shallow rivers, where they became stuck. Unable to turn themselves around, they died of starvation.

Oh dear *face palm*

[_gdemetz]

Yea, I know the word geology! Do you know the word theology?! Themis, you are only quoting a very small part of that article! The main point of that article was that the so called "geological" excuses, such as the one you mentioned, were not satisfactory explanations for all the marine fossils which have been discovered so far inland and at heights where rivers, etc., could not bring them!