Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

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_Themis
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Themis »

gdemetz wrote:I'm glad you mentioned the "ice age." The article I quoted made the point that an ice age could not account for those fossil deposits either. The Bible does not mention Jupiter either, but that doesn't mean Jupiter does not exist! Your logic is very faulty for an educated man! Do you suppose that the Bible would mention everything that happened or would exist, and if it didn't mention it then it would not be real?!?


The ice age does not fit with a young earth.
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_bcuzbcuz
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _bcuzbcuz »

gdemetz wrote:I think you guys are not reading my posts very well. I was told to name one piece of evidence again when I already mentioned whale bones found inland way above sea level, and gave a reference. In addition to this, I could give much more evidence, but I fear that I would just be wasting my time. For, as FranTalk so well stated it; scholars come in all flavors, and I may add that historians, archeologists, and scientists come in all flavors also. However, a very obvious and overwhelming bias is shown here! You seem so sure that some obscure pharaoh may have existed at the exact time when the great flood occurred, with dubious evidence which many historians have questioned, but, on the other hand, despite all the amount of much more recent historical evidence of the life and ministry of Jesus Christ, you state that He may never have existed?!? Now, who does not want to be confused by the facts?!?


I read and have read all your posts and spent a number of hours following up your references given both from Wikipedia and from Ken Ham's "Answers in Genesis" site.

I read them, however, with very different eyes than you do. First of all, I know that Wikipedia can be edited and changed by almost anyone who wishes to take the time to do so. It is often fun to read and can be informative but please, take its portrayal of events with a grain of salt. I know of one site where the chief contributor gleefully adds all kinds of nonsense about himself. To him it is like a year-long, running, April Fool's joke. I have a very limited circle of friends so I feel safe in assuming that other sites are possibly prone to the same kind of truth-bending.

Secondly, Ken Ham's site willfully bends the facts to fit an already conceptualized picture of historical events. I mentioned that http://www.answersingenesis.org/ drops over 300 years from their calculations of Biblical Old Testament events in order for their time scale to match a supposedly accurate list of Egyptian pharaohs. 300 years is not insignificant.
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love...you make. PMcC
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _gdemetz »

I will try to address several things at once from this post, but I fear that this is a waste of time since you guys favor one flavor of scientist and I favor another. As far as the question regarding the ice age(s), I will just refer you to Kevin R. Henke, PHD. Concerning the impossibility of the earth having its present population from only 8 people. That reminds me of the foolish king who agreed to pay his adviser with one grain of rice, or whatever it was, doubled for each square of the chessboard. However, the foolish king realized well before he got to the last square that he would not have enough grains in all his kingdom to pay that! If you would assume the normal doubling of populations for each generation as an estimate, and do some quick mathematics, then you can see have fast populations can really grow! Also, as I stated before, sea life has been discovered in many places inland which are very far from the sea, and some at surprisingly high altitudes. Evidences of this fact can also be found in part four of Dr. Henke's five part series on "The Age of the Earth."
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _bcuzbcuz »

gdemetz wrote:I will try to address several things at once from this post, but I fear that this is a waste of time since you guys favor one flavor of scientist and I favor another. As far as the question regarding the ice age(s), I will just refer you to Kevin R. Henke, PHD. Concerning the impossibility of the earth having its present population from only 8 people. That reminds me of the foolish king who agreed to pay his adviser with one grain of rice, or whatever it was, doubled for each square of the chessboard. However, the foolish king realized well before he got to the last square that he would not have enough grains in all his kingdom to pay that! If you would assume the normal doubling of populations for each generation as an estimate, and do some quick mathematics, then you can see have fast populations can really grow! Also, as I stated before, sea life has been discovered in many places inland which are very far from the sea, and some at surprisingly high altitudes. Evidences of this fact can also be found in part four of Dr. Henke's five part series on "The Age of the Earth."


Have you actually read anything from Kevin R. Henke, PHD?

http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/me ... _henke.htm
http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/mt ... ite_kh.htm

I suggest you obtain a base level geology text and read the parts about ocean deposits. As far as finding sea life far inland, my first ever fossil find was in Utah, in the moutainous, almost desert like, sandy regions, east of Salt Lake City, a trilobite, roughly the size of a silver dollar and in very good condition. Trilobites lived on the ocean floor roughly 270 million years ago. The most fantastic trilobites I have ever seen were in Barcelona. They were also very, very stone dead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilobite
http://www.trilobites.information/triloimposters.htm
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love...you make. PMcC
_Themis
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Themis »

gdemetz wrote:I will try to address several things at once from this post, but I fear that this is a waste of time since you guys favor one flavor of scientist and I favor another. As far as the question regarding the ice age(s), I will just refer you to Kevin R. Henke, PHD. Concerning the impossibility of the earth having its present population from only 8 people. That reminds me of the foolish king who agreed to pay his adviser with one grain of rice, or whatever it was, doubled for each square of the chessboard. However, the foolish king realized well before he got to the last square that he would not have enough grains in all his kingdom to pay that! If you would assume the normal doubling of populations for each generation as an estimate, and do some quick mathematics, then you can see have fast populations can really grow! Also, as I stated before, sea life has been discovered in many places inland which are very far from the sea, and some at surprisingly high altitudes. Evidences of this fact can also be found in part four of Dr. Henke's five part series on "The Age of the Earth."


You really need to find better sources. Your flavor of scientist is not really science. I would suggest at this point that you when you can, start talking to LDS scientists in some of the hard sciences like physics, biology, geology, etc about the subject. Try to find out why they do not believe in a global flood. I hope you might be less biased with them then with us. If you can find one who knows about population sciences that would be great as well. 8 people cannot populate that fast, but the the whole problem here has always been that we see people living all over the world and they keep living all over the world. Now how did they all survive this global flood?
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_Drifting
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Drifting »

Themis wrote:
gdemetz wrote:I will try to address several things at once from this post, but I fear that this is a waste of time since you guys favor one flavor of scientist and I favor another. As far as the question regarding the ice age(s), I will just refer you to Kevin R. Henke, PHD. Concerning the impossibility of the earth having its present population from only 8 people. That reminds me of the foolish king who agreed to pay his adviser with one grain of rice, or whatever it was, doubled for each square of the chessboard. However, the foolish king realized well before he got to the last square that he would not have enough grains in all his kingdom to pay that! If you would assume the normal doubling of populations for each generation as an estimate, and do some quick mathematics, then you can see have fast populations can really grow! Also, as I stated before, sea life has been discovered in many places inland which are very far from the sea, and some at surprisingly high altitudes. Evidences of this fact can also be found in part four of Dr. Henke's five part series on "The Age of the Earth."


You really need to find better sources. Your flavor of scientist is not really science. I would suggest at this point that you when you can, start talking to LDS scientists in some of the hard sciences like physics, biology, geology, etc about the subject. Try to find out why they do not believe in a global flood. I hope you might be less biased with them then with us. If you can find one who knows about population sciences that would be great as well. 8 people cannot populate that fast, but the the whole problem here has always been that we see people living all over the world and they keep living all over the world. Now how did they all survive this global flood?


Were they floaters?
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_Themis
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Themis »

Drifting wrote:
Were they floaters?


They must have been, just like all the other millions of species that couldn't make it on the ark. It must be through them that all the viruses and such survived as well.
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_gdemetz
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _gdemetz »

Yes, I have read some Henke writings. I also read a book once that I found interesting which was written by a Mormon scientist (forgot his name), entitled, "Science and Mormonism." He also put forth opinions which differ from what you guys have stated.
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Drifting »

gdemetz wrote:I also read a book once that I found interesting which was written by a Mormon scientist (forgot his name), entitled, "Science and Mormonism." He also put forth opinions which differ from what you guys have stated.



I don't think you did...
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_gdemetz
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _gdemetz »

I know I did!
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