LittleNipper wrote:So your belief is that Paul went from being an Orthodox Jew to become a most fervent of Christians, thus throwing away everything he had gained (pious reputation and all) for himself within the "Jewish" community to become a gentile loving political criminal? And what exactly do you base your belief on?
You don't think people change? I thought that was the whole point of conversion.
First of all, we only have his word for most of this, which I frankly don't trust. Second, he didn't become "the most fervent of Christians", he decided that he was in charge of the Christians, that he should define what/who Christ was. He battled a lot of the people who actually knew Jesus. He clashed with James and his group. He bent Judaism way out of shape so that it could be accepted by pagan Romans and thus more popular and powerful.
I do believe people change to do good who have been motivated to do so by the Holy Spirit. People who are wicked can pretend for a while but it is impossible to keep up the charade. A person will not intentionally die for something he truly doesn't believe in. GOD in the New Testament demonstrated how Christians came to comprehend (understand) their salvation. GOD allowed man to work it out. And frankly you entirely forget that with witnesses present, Jesus came and spoke to Saul and changed his name to Paul and blinded him and then restored his sight. Paul is not simply a loose cannon arriving from left field...
LittleNipper wrote: I do believe people change to do good who have been motivated to do so by the Holy Spirit. People who are wicked can pretend for a while but it is impossible to keep up the charade. A person will not intentionally die for something he truly doesn't believe in. GOD in the New Testament demonstrated how Christians came to comprehend (understand) their salvation. GOD allowed man to work it out. And frankly you entirely forget that with witnesses present, Jesus came and spoke to Saul and changed his name to Paul and blinded him and then restored his sight. Paul is not simply a loose cannon arriving from left field...
He was certainly indispensable. Without Paul, Christianity would have been a little Jewish cult that lasted a few generations and disappeared. By climbing on the back of the world's greatest empire and military power, they were able to surf a wave of blood and carnage into cultural dominance in the West.
Therefore, if you have any encouragement for me from your being united with the Messiah, any comfort flowing from love, any fellowship with me Spiritually, or any compassion and sympathy,
then fulfill my joy by having a common purpose and love, by being one in heart and mind.
Do nothing out of competition or pride; but, in humility, regard each other as better than yourselves —
look out for each other’s interests and not just for your own.
Let your attitude toward one another be directed by being united with Jesus the Messiah:
Though He was in the form of God, He did not consider equality with God something to be owned forcefully.
Quite the opposite, the Messiah emptied himself, in that He took a slave's roll by becoming a human being. And when he appeared as a human being,
He humbled Himself still more by becoming obedient even to death — death on a tree as a criminal!
Therefore God uplifted Him to the highest position and gave Him the name above every name;
that in honor of the name given Jesus, every knee will bow — in heaven, on earth and underground —
and every tongue will acknowledge that Jesus the Messiah is Lord — glorifying God the Father.
So, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed when I was with you, it is even more important that you obey now when I am distant: keep working out your deliverance with concern and trembling,
for God is the one working among you both the willing and laboring as He wishes.
Do everything without grumbling or arguing,
so that you may be blameless and pure children of God, without defect in the midst of a twisted and twisted generation, among whom you shine like stars in the heavens,
as you hold on to the Word of Life. If you do this, I will be able to boast, on the Day of the Messiah, that I did not run or toil for nothing.
Indeed, even if my lifeblood gushes forth as a drink offering over the sacrifice and service of your faith, I will still be glad and rejoice with you all.
Likewise, you also should be happy and rejoice with me.
But I hope in the Lord Jesus to send Timothy to you shortly, so that I too may be cheered knowing how you are doing.
I have no one to compare with him, who will care so sincerely for your welfare —
people all put their own interests ahead of Jesus the Messiah.
But you know his character, that like a child with his father he slaved with me to promote the Good Message.
So I intend to send him just as soon as I see how things will go with me,
and I have confidence in the Lord that before long I will come along also.
Also I considered it necessary to send you Epaphroditus, my brother, fellow-worker and soldier, the apostle whom you sent to care for my needs;
since he has been pinning for you all and has been distressed because you heard he was ill.
In fact he was ill and nearly died; but God had mercy on him — and not only on him, but also on me — otherwise I would have been beside myself.
Therefore, I am all the more eager to send him, so that you may rejoice when you see him again; and I, for my part, may be not too bad.
So give him a joyful welcome in the Lord; honor such people.
For he risked his life and almost died working for the Messiah, in order to give me the help you were not in a position to give.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 If, then, any exhortation [is] in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 fulfil ye my joy, that ye may mind the same thing -- having the same love -- of one soul -- minding the one thing,
3 nothing in rivalry or vain-glory, but in humility of mind one another counting more excellent than yourselves --
4 each not to your own look ye, but each also to the things of others.
5 For, let this mind be in you that [is] also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, being in the form of God, thought [it] not robbery to be equal to God,
7 but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,
8 and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross,
9 wherefore, also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that [is] above every name,
10 that in the name of Jesus every knee may bow -- of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth --
11 and every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 So that, my beloved, as ye always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, with fear and trembling your own salvation work out,
13 for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
14 All things do without murmurings and reasonings,
15 that ye may become blameless and harmless, children of God, unblemished in the midst of a generation crooked and perverse, among whom ye do appear as luminaries in the world,
16 the word of life holding forth, for rejoicing to me in regard to a day of Christ, that not in vain did I run, nor in vain did I labour;
17 but if also I am poured forth upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I rejoice and joy with you all,
18 because of this do ye also rejoice and joy with me.
19 And I hope, in the Lord Jesus, Timotheus to send quickly to you, that I also may be of good spirit, having known the things concerning you,
20 for I have no one like-minded, who sincerely for the things concerning you will care,
21 for the whole seek their own things, not the things of the Christ Jesus,
22 and the proof of him ye know, that as a child [serveth] a father, with me he did serve in regard to the good news;
23 him, indeed, therefore, I hope to send, when I may see through the things concerning me -- immediately;
24 and I trust in the Lord that I myself also shall quickly come.
25 And I thought [it] necessary Epaphroditus -- my brother, and fellow-workman, and fellow-soldier, and your apostle and servant to my need -- to send unto you,
26 seeing he was longing after you all, and in heaviness, because ye heard that he ailed,
27 for he also ailed nigh to death, but God did deal kindly with him, and not with him only, but also with me, that sorrow upon sorrow I might not have.
28 The more eagerly, therefore, I did send him, that having seen him again ye may rejoice, and I may be the less sorrowful;
29 receive him, therefore, in the Lord, with all joy, and hold such in honour,
30 because on account of the work of the Christ he drew near to death, having hazarded the life that he might fill up your deficiency of service unto me.
Concluding, my brethren: rejoice united in the Lord.
It's not a problem for me to repeat what I have written you previously, and to you it acts as a safeguard:
beware of the dogs, evildoers, those that claim circumcision for salvation!
For we the believers are the Circumcised, we who worship by the Spirit of God and boast in Jesus the Messiah! We do not put confidence in human qualifications,
even though I certainly have grounds for putting confidence in such things. If anyone else thinks he has grounds for putting confidence in human qualifications, I certainly have better grounds:
Circumcised on the 8th day, Born an Israelite, of the tribe of Benjamin, Hebrew-speaking, with Hebrew-speaking parents, regarding the Law, a Pharisee,
regarding zeal, a persecutor of the Messianic Community, regarding the righteousness demanded by legalism, faultless.
But the things that used to be advantages to me, I have, because of the Messiah, come to consider disadvantages.
Not only that, but I consider everything a disadvantage in comparison with the superior value of knowing Jesus the Messiah as my Lord. It was because of Him that I gave up everything and regard it all as garbage, in order to gain the Messiah
and be found united with Him, not having any righteousness of my own based on legalism, but having that righteousness which comes through the Messiah’s faithfulness, the righteousness from God based on trust.
Yes, I gave it all up in order to know Him, that is, to know the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings as I am being conformed to His death,
so that I will arrive at being resurrected from the dead.
It is not that I have already obtained it or already reached the goal. No, I keep pursuing it in the hope of grabbing hold of that for which Jesus the Messiah grabbed hold of me.
Brethren, I, for my role, do not think of myself as having yet reached it; but one thing I do: forgetting my past and straining forward towards the future,
I keep pursuing the goal in order to win the prize offered by God’s upward calling in Jesus the Messiah.
Therefore, as many of us as are mature, let us continue to pay attention to this; and if you are differently minded about anything, God will also reveal this to you.
Only let our conduct fit the level we have already reached.
Brethren, join in imitating me, and pay attention to those who live according to the pattern we established for you.
For many (I have told you concerning them often --- and even now I say it tearfully) live as enemies of the Messiah’s execution tree.
They are headed for destruction! Their god is the belly; they are totally proud of what they should to be ashamed of, since they are concerned with material things.
But we are citizens of heaven, and it is from there that we expect a Deliverer, the Lord Jesus the Messiah.
He will change the bodies we have in this humble state and make them similar to His glorious body, using the power which allows Him to bring everything under His control.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 As to the rest, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord; the same things to write to you to me indeed is not tiresome, and for you [is] sure;
2 look to the dogs, look to the evil-workers, look to the concision;
3 for we are the circumcision, who by the Spirit are serving God, and glorying in Christ Jesus, and in flesh having no trust,
4 though I also have [cause of] trust in flesh. If any other one doth think to have trust in flesh, I more;
5 circumcision on the eighth day! of the race of Israel! of the tribe of Benjamin! a Hebrew of Hebrews! according to law a Pharisee!
6 according to zeal persecuting the assembly! according to righteousness that is in law becoming blameless!
7 But what things were to me gains, these I have counted, because of the Christ, loss;
8 yes, indeed, and I count all things to be loss, because of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, because of whom of the all things I suffered loss, and do count them to be refuse, that Christ I may gain, and be found in him,
9 not having my righteousness, which [is] of law, but that which [is] through faith of Christ -- the righteousness that is of God by the faith,
10 to know him, and the power of his rising again, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being conformed to his death,
11 if anyhow I may attain to the rising again of the dead.
12 Not that I did already obtain, or have been already perfected; but I pursue, if also I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by the Christ Jesus;
13 brethren, I do not reckon myself to have laid hold; and one thing -- the things behind indeed forgetting, and to the things before stretching forth --
14 to the mark I pursue for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 As many, therefore, as [are] perfect -- let us think this, and if [in] anything ye think otherwise, this also shall God reveal to you,
16 but to what we have come -- by the same rule walk, the same thing think;
17 become followers together of me, brethren, and observe those thus walking, according as ye have us -- a pattern;
18 for many walk of whom many times I told you -- and now also weeping tell -- the enemies of the cross of the Christ!
19 whose end [is] destruction, whose god [is] the belly, and whose glory [is] in their shame, who the things on earth are minding.
20 For our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await -- the Lord Jesus Christ --
21 who shall transform the body of our humiliation to its becoming conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working of his power, even to subject to himself the all things.
So, brethren, both loved and longed for, my joy, crown, and dear friends --- keep standing firm united with the Lord.
I beg Evodia and Syntyche to get along with each other united with the Lord.
I also request you, loyal Syzygus, to assist these women; for they have worked hard proclaiming the Good Message along with me, along with Clement and the rest of my coworkers whose names are in the Book of Life.
Rejoice united with the Lord continually! I'll say it again: rejoice!
Let everyone see how reasonable and gentle you are. The Lord is near!
Don’t worry about anything; quite the contrary, make your requests to God by prayer and petition, thankfully.
Then God’s peace, passing all understanding, will keep your hearts and minds secure united with Jesus the Messiah.
In closing, brethren, direct your thoughts on what is true, noble, righteous, clean, lovable or admirable, on something virtuous or praiseworthy.
Keep doing what you have learned and received through me --- what you have heard and observed me doing. Then the God who gives peace will be with you.
United with the Lord I greatly rejoice that now, after this long time, you have allowed your concern for me to reveal itself again. Certainly, you were concerned for me all along, but you had no opportunity to express it.
Not that I am saying this to call attention to any need of mine; since, as far as I am concerned, I have learned to be content regardless of circumstances.
I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have more than enough — in everything and in every way I have learned the secret of being full and being hungry --- of having abundance and being needy.
I can do all things through Him who provide me with power.
Nevertheless, it was good of you to share in my trouble.
And you Philippians yourselves know that in the early days of my work spreading the Good Message, when I left Macedonia, not a single congregation shared with me in regard to giving and receiving — only you.
Actually, while in Thessalonica when I needed it, you sent me aid twice.
I'm not seeking the gift; rather, I am looking for what will be accredited to your account.
I've been more than paid in full: I have been filled, since I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent — they are a fragrant aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing God.
Also, my God will fill every need of yours according to His glorious wealth, united with Jesus the Messiah.
And to God our Father be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
Greet each of God’s people in Jesus the Messiah. The brethren with me send their greetings to you.
All God’s people send greetings, but especially those in the Emperor’s household.
The grace of the Lord Jesus the Messiah abide with your spirit.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 So then, my brethren, beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand ye in the Lord, beloved.
2 Euodia I exhort, and Syntyche I exhort, to be of the same mind in the Lord;
3 and I ask also thee, genuine yoke-fellow, be assisting those women who in the good news did strive along with me, with Clement also, and the others, my fellow-workers, whose names [are] in the book of life.
4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice;
5 let your forbearance be known to all men; the Lord [is] near;
6 for nothing be anxious, but in everything by prayer, and by supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known unto God;
7 and the peace of God, that is surpassing all understanding, shall guard your hearts and your thoughts in Christ Jesus.
8 As to the rest, brethren, as many things as are true, as many as [are] grave, as many as [are] righteous, as many as [are] pure, as many as [are] lovely, as many as [are] of good report, if any worthiness, and if any praise, these things think upon;
9 the things that also ye did learn, and receive, and hear, and saw in me, those do, and the God of the peace shall be with you.
10 And I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at length ye flourished again in caring for me, for which also ye were caring, and lacked opportunity;
11 not that in respect of want I say [it], for I did learn in the things in which I am -- to be content;
12 I have known both to be abased, and I have known to abound; in everything and in all things I have been initiated, both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to be in want.
13 For all things I have strength, in Christ's strengthening me;
14 but ye did well, having communicated with my tribulation;
15 and ye have known, even ye Philippians, that in the beginning of the good news when I went forth from Macedonia, no assembly did communicate with me in regard to giving and receiving except ye only;
16 because also in Thessalonica, both once and again to my need ye sent;
17 not that I seek after the gift, but I seek after the fruit that is overflowing to your account;
18 and I have all things, and abound; I am filled, having received from Epaphroditus the things from you -- an odour of a sweet smell -- a sacrifice acceptable, well-pleasing to God:
19 and my God shall supply all your need, according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus;
20 and to God, even our Father, [is] the glory -- to the ages of the ages. Amen.
21 Salute ye every saint in Christ Jesus; there salute you the brethren with me;
22 there salute you all the saints, and specially those of Caesar's house;
23 the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [is] with you all. Amen.
From: Paul, by God’s will an apostle of Jesus the Messiah, and brother Timothy
To: God’s people in Colossae, faithful brethren in the Messiah:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father.
Every time we pray, we always give thanks for you to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus the Messiah.
For we have heard of your trust in Jesus the Messiah and of the love you have for all God’s people.
Both originate with the confident hope that you will receive what is saved up for you in heaven. You heard of this prior in the message concerning the truth. This Good Message
has made its existence felt among you, just as it is also being fruitful and spreading throughout the world in the same way as it has among you since the day you heard and understood the grace of God as it actually is.
You learned it from Epaphras, our dear fellow-slave and a faithful worker for the Messiah on your behalf;
and he has told us about the love which the Spirit has provided you.
Therefore, from the day we heard of it, we have not stopped praying for you, asking God to fill you with the knowledge of His will in all the wisdom and understanding which the Spirit provides;
so that you may live lives worthy of the Lord and entirely pleasing to Him, being fruitful in every good work and multiplying in the full knowledge of God.
We pray that you will be continually strengthened with all the power that comes from his glorious might; so that you will be able to hand on and be patient in all circumstances, joyfully
giving thanks to the Father for having made you fit to share in the inheritance of His people in the light.
He has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of His dear Son.
It is through His Son that we have redemption — meaning, our sins have been forgiven.
He is the tangible image of the invisible God. He's supreme over all creation,
because in connection with Him were created all things — in heaven and on earth, observable and invisible, whether thrones, lordships, rulers or authorities — they have all been created through Him and for Him.
He existed prior to all things, and He holds everything together.
Also He is head of the Body, the Messianic Community — He is the starting point, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might hold first place in everything.
For it pleased God to have His entire being exist in His Son
and through His Son to reconcile to Himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace through him, through having his Son shed His blood by being executed on a tree.
In other words, you, who at one time were separated from God and had a hostile attitude towards Him because of your evil deeds,
He has now reconciled in the Son’s physical body through His death; in order to present you holy and without defect or reproach before Himself —
provided, of course, that you continue in your trusting, grounded and steady, and don’t let yourselves be moved away from the hope offered in the Good News you heard.
This is the Good Message that has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven; and I, Paul, have become a servant of it.
I rejoice in my present sufferings on your behalf! Yes, I am completing in my own flesh what has been lacking of the Messiah’s afflictions, on behalf of his Body, the Messianic Community.
I became a servant of the Good Message because God gave me this work to do for your benefit. The work is to make fully known the message from God,
the secret hidden for generations, for ages, but now made clear to the people He has set aside for Himself.
To them God wanted to make known how great among the Gentiles is the glorious value of this secret. And the secret is this: the Messiah is united with you people! In that rests your hope of glory!
For our part we proclaim Him; we warn, confront and teach everyone in all wisdom; so that we may present everyone as having reached the goal, united with the Messiah.
It is for this that I work, striving with all the energy that He strongly stirs up in me.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Timotheus the brother,
2 to the saints in Colossae, and to the faithful brethren in Christ: Grace to you, and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ!
3 We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, always praying for you,
4 having heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love that [is] to all the saints,
5 because of the hope that is laid up for you in the heavens, which ye heard of before in the word of the truth of the good news,
6 which is present to you, as also in all the world, and is bearing fruit, as also in you, from the day in which ye heard, and knew the grace of God in truth;
7 as ye also learned from Epaphras, our beloved fellow-servant, who is for you a faithful ministrant of the Christ,
8 who also did declare to us your love in the Spirit.
9 Because of this, we also, from the day in which we heard, do not cease praying for you, and asking that ye may be filled with the full knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding,
10 to your walking worthily of the Lord to all pleasing, in every good work being fruitful, and increasing to the knowledge of God,
11 in all might being made mighty according to the power of His glory, to all endurance and long-suffering with joy.
12 Giving thanks to the Father who did make us meet for the participation of the inheritance of the saints in the light,
13 who did rescue us out of the authority of the darkness, and did translate [us] into the reign of the Son of His love,
14 in whom we have the redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of the sins,
15 who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
16 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
17 and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
18 And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all [things] -- himself -- first,
19 because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle,
20 and through him to reconcile the all things to himself -- having made peace through the blood of his cross -- through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.
21 And you -- once being alienated, and enemies in the mind, in the evil works, yet now did he reconcile,
22 in the body of his flesh through the death, to present you holy, and unblemished, and unblameable before himself,
23 if also ye remain in the faith, being founded and settled, and not moved away from the hope of the good news, which ye heard, which was preached in all the creation that [is] under the heaven, of which I became -- I Paul -- a ministrant.
24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and do fill up the things lacking of the tribulations of the Christ in my flesh for his body, which is the assembly,
25 of which I -- I did become a ministrant according to the dispensation of God, that was given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God,
26 the secret that hath been hid from the ages and from the generations, but now was manifested to his saints,
27 to whom God did will to make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this secret among the nations -- which is Christ in you, the hope of the glory,
28 whom we proclaim, warning every man, and teaching every man, in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus,
29 for which also I labour, striving according to his working that is working in me in power.
Nipper, I do hope you advised our readers that this is one of the disputed letters. Many New Testament scholars consider it a forgery or misattribution. The literary voice and themes are quite different from Ephesians, for instance.
I'd like you to realize how hard I work for you, for those in Laodicea, and for the rest of those who have not met me personally.
My intent is that they may be encouraged --- joined together in love, and that they may have all the riches gained from being assured of understanding and fully knowing God’s secret truth being --- the Messiah!
It is in Him that all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden.
I say this so that no one will fool you with plausible but specious arguments.
For although I'm not there physically, I am with you in spirit, rejoicing as I observe the disciplined and resolute firmness of your trust in the Messiah.
Therefore, just as you received Jesus the Messiah as Lord, keep living united with Him.
Remain deeply rooted in him; continue being uplifted in Him and confirmed in your trust, the way you were taught, so that you overflow in thankfulness.
Be cautious, so that no one will imprison you through philosophy and empty deceit, following human tradition which agrees with the elemental spirits of the world but does not agree with the Messiah.
For in Him, bodily, lives the fullness of everything that God is.
And it is united with Him that you have been made full — He is the head of all rule and authority.
Also it was united with Him that you were circumcised with a circumcision not accomplished with human hands, but accomplished by stripping away the old nature’s control of the body. In this circumcision done by the Messiah,
you were buried along with Him by being immersed; and united with Him, you were also raised up along with Him by God’s faithfulness that worked when He raised Jesus from the dead.
You were dead because of your sins, that is, because of your “foreskin,” your old nature. But God made you alive along with the Messiah by forgiving you all your sins.
He expunged the bill of charges against us. Because of regulations, it stood as a testimony against us; but He removed it by nailing it to the tree.
Stripping the rulers and authorities of their power, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by means of the tree.
So don’t let anyone pass judgment on you in connection with eating and drinking, or in regard to a Jewish festival or Rosh-Hodesh or sabbaths.
These foreshadow things that are coming, but the body is of the Messiah.
Don’t let anyone deny you the prize by insisting that you engage in self-mortification or angel-worship. Such people are always talking about some vision they have had, and they vainly puff themselves up by their worldly outlook.
They fail to hold to the Head, from whom the whole Body, receiving supply and being held together by its joints and ligaments, grows as God makes it grow.
If, along with the Messiah, you died to the elemental spirits of the world, then why, as if you still belonged to the world, are you allowing yourselves to be maneuvered by its rules? —
“Don’t touch this!” “Don’t eat that!” “Don’t handle the other!”
Such prohibitions concern things meant to perish by being applied [not by being avoided!], and they are based on man-made rules and teachings.
They do in fact have the outward appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed religious observances, false humility and bodily neglect; but they have no value at all in restraining people from indulging their old nature.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 For I wish you to know how great a conflict I have for you and those in Laodicea, and as many as have not seen my face in the flesh,
2 that their hearts may be comforted, being united in love, and to all riches of the full assurance of the understanding, to the full knowledge of the secret of the God and Father, and of the Christ,
3 in whom are all the treasures of the wisdom and the knowledge hid,
4 and this I say, that no one may beguile you in enticing words,
5 for if even in the flesh I am absent -- yet in the spirit I am with you, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in regard to Christ;
6 as, then, ye did receive Christ Jesus the Lord, in him walk ye,
7 being rooted and built up in him, and confirmed in the faith, as ye were taught -- abounding in it in thanksgiving.
8 See that no one shall be carrying you away as spoil through the philosophy and vain deceit, according to the deliverance of men, according to the rudiments of the world, and not according to Christ,
9 because in him doth tabernacle all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
10 and ye are in him made full, who is the head of all principality and authority,
11 in whom also ye were circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the sins of the flesh in the circumcision of the Christ,
12 being buried with him in the baptism, in which also ye rose with [him] through the faith of the working of God, who did raise him out of the dead.
13 And you -- being dead in the trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh -- He made alive together with him, having forgiven you all the trespasses,
14 having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross;
15 having stripped the principalities and the authorities, he made a shew of them openly -- having triumphed over them in it.
16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,
17 which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ;
18 let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and [in] worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh,
19 and not holding the head, from which all the body -- through the joints and bands gathering supply, and being knit together -- may increase with the increase of God.
20 If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances?
21 -- thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle --
22 which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men,
23 which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body -- not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh.
I see no problem with Colossians. The letters were written to different people, at different times, regarding different issues, while Paul was undergoing different problems himself. These letters are blatantly obvious in their meaning. People are hard pressed to deny what is being said. So, the next step is to discredit the writings and in that way not feel ashamed or offended. In other words, they simply say, these works are not authentic and do not belong in the Bible. And then they can feel good about themselves through denial.
LittleNipper wrote:I see no problem with Colossians. The letters were written to different people, at different times, regarding different issues, while Paul was undergoing different problems himself. These letters are blatantly obvious in their meaning. People are hard pressed to deny what is being said. So, the next step is to discredit the writings and in that way not feel ashamed or offended. In other words, they simply say, these works are not authentic and do not belong in the Bible. And then they can feel good about themselves through denial.
Oh really? So you know these scholars personally and can judge them and their morals without personal knowledge? Sounds like you just have a great imagination and need to dismiss people who are different from you.
Remember, Nipper, there are many many Christians who don't see the Bible as inerrant and don't accept all of its claimed provenance. Sorry, it's a fact. They are Christians too and the Bible belongs to them as much as you.
