Maksutov wrote:Another book of someone pretending to be someone they are not. Many scholars reject this as written by Peter. From Wikipedia:
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The authorship of the Petrine epistles (First and Second Peter) is an important question in biblical criticism, parallel to that of the authorship of the Pauline epistles, since scholars have long sought to determine who were the exact authors of the New Testament letters. Most scholars today conclude that Saint Peter was not the author of the two epistles that are attributed to him and that they were written by two different authors.[1][2][3]
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Clues in support of pseudepigraphy[edit] Although 2 Peter internally purports to be a work of the apostle, most biblical scholars have concluded that Peter is not the author, and instead consider the epistle pseudepigraphical.[9] Reasons for this include its linguistic differences from 1 Peter, its apparent use of Jude, possible allusions to 2nd-century gnosticism, encouragement in the wake of a delayed parousia, and weak external support.[10] In addition, specific passages offer further clues in support of pseudepigraphy, namely the author's assumption that his audience is familiar with multiple Pauline epistles (2Peter 3:15–16), his implication that the Apostolic generation has passed (2Peter 3:4), and his differentiation between himself and "the apostles of the Lord and Savior"
But among the people there were also false prophets, just as there will be false teachers among you. Under false pretenses they will introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who paid it all for them ---- bring upon themselves a rapid death.
Many will follow their debaucheries; and because of them, the true Way will be slandered.
In their greed they will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their punishment, decreed long ago, is not idle; their destruction is not resting!
For God did not spare the angels who sinned; on the contrary, He placed them in dark dungeons lower than hell to be held for judgment.
And He did not spare the ancient world; quite the contrary, He saved Noah, a proclaimer of righteousness, with seven others, and brought the Flood upon a world full of ungodly people.
And He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, reducing them to ashes, as a warning to those in the future who would live ungodly lives.
However, He rescued Lot, a righteous man who was distressed by the debauchery of those immoral people;
for the wicked deeds which that righteous man observed and heard, as he lived among them, tormented his righteous heart daily.
So the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and how to chain the wicked until the Day of Judgment while continuing to punish them,
especially those who follow their old natures in lust for filth and who despise authority.
Presumptuous and self-willed, these false teachers do not tremble at insulting angelic beings;
whereas angels, though stronger and mightier, do not bring before the Lord an insulting charge against them.
But these people, acting without thinking, like animals without reason, born to be captured and destroyed, insult things about which they have no clue. When they are destroyed, their destruction will be total.
They will be paid back in harm as wages for the harm they bring.
Their idea of pleasure is carousing in broad daylight; they are spots and defects reveling in their deceptions as they share meals with you —
for they have eyes always on the lookout for a woman who will commit adultery, eyes that never stop sinning; and they have a heart that has exercised itself in greed; so that they seduce unstable people. What a cured group!
These people have left the straight path and wandered off to follow the way of Bosom's son Balaam, who loved the payment of doing harm
but was rebuked for his sin when a dumb beast of burden spoke out with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s insanity!
Waterless springs they are, mists driven by a gust of wind; for them has been reserved the blackest darkness.
Mouthing grandiosity of emptiness, they play on the desires of the old nature, in order to seduce with debaucheries people who have just begun to escape from those whose way of life is wrong.
They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption; for a person is slave to whatever has defeated him.
In fact, if they have once escaped the pollutions of the world through knowing our Lord and Deliverer, Jesus the Messiah, and then have again become entangled and defeated by them, their latter condition has become worse than previous.
It would have been better for them not to have known the Way of righteousness than, fully comprehending, to turn from the holy command handed to them.
What has happened to them illustrates the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit.” Yes, “The pig washed itself, only to wallow in the mud!”
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And there did come also false prophets among the people, as also among you there shall be false teachers, who shall bring in besides destructive sects, and the Master who bought them denying, bringing to themselves quick destruction,
2 and many shall follow out their destructive ways, because of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of,
3 and in covetousness, with moulded words, of you they shall make merchandise, whose judgment of old is not idle, and their destruction doth not slumber.
4 For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast [them] down to Tartarus, did deliver [them] to judgment, having been reserved,
5 and the old world did not spare, but the eighth person, Noah, of righteousness a preacher, did keep, a flood on the world of the impious having brought,
6 and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah having turned to ashes, with an overthrow did condemn, an example to those about to be impious having set [them];
7 and righteous Lot, worn down by the conduct in lasciviousness of the impious, He did rescue,
8 for in seeing and hearing, the righteous man, dwelling among them, day by day the righteous soul with unlawful works was harassing.
9 The Lord hath known to rescue pious ones out of temptation, and unrighteous ones to a day of judgment, being punished, to keep,
10 and chiefly those going behind the flesh in desire of uncleanness, and lordship despising; presumptuous, self-complacent, dignities they are not afraid to speak evil of,
11 whereas messengers, in strength and power being greater, do not bear against them before the Lord an evil speaking judgment;
12 and these, as irrational natural beasts, made to be caught and destroyed -- in what things they are ignorant of, speaking evil -- in their destruction shall be destroyed,
13 about to receive a reward of unrighteousness, pleasures counting the luxury in the day, spots and blemishes, luxuriating in their deceits, feasting with you,
14 having eyes full of adultery, and unable to cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having an heart exercised in covetousnesses, children of a curse,
15 having forsaken a right way, they did go astray, having followed in the way of Balaam the [son] of Bosor, who a reward of unrighteousness did love,
16 and had a rebuke of his own iniquity -- a dumb ass, in man's voice having spoken, did forbid the madness of the prophet.
17 These are wells without water, and clouds by a tempest driven, to whom the thick gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept;
18 for overswellings of vanity speaking, they do entice in desires of the flesh -- lasciviousnesses, those who had truly escaped from those conducting themselves in error,
19 liberty to them promising, themselves being servants of the corruption, for by whom any one hath been overcome, to this one also he hath been brought to servitude,
20 for, if having escaped from the pollutions of the world, in the acknowledging of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and by these again being entangled, they have been overcome, become to them hath the last things worse than the first,
21 for it were better to them not to have acknowledged the way of the righteousness, than having acknowledged [it], to turn back from the holy command delivered to them,
22 and happened to them hath that of the true similitude; `A dog did turn back upon his own vomit,' and, `A sow having bathed herself -- to rolling in mire.'
Last edited by Guest on Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
Maksutov wrote:Another book of someone pretending to be someone they are not. Many scholars reject this as written by Peter. From Wikipedia:
....
The authorship of the Petrine epistles (First and Second Peter) is an important question in biblical criticism, parallel to that of the authorship of the Pauline epistles, since scholars have long sought to determine who were the exact authors of the New Testament letters. Most scholars today conclude that Saint Peter was not the author of the two epistles that are attributed to him and that they were written by two different authors.[1][2][3]
..........
Clues in support of pseudepigraphy[edit] Although 2 Peter internally purports to be a work of the apostle, most biblical scholars have concluded that Peter is not the author, and instead consider the epistle pseudepigraphical.[9] Reasons for this include its linguistic differences from 1 Peter, its apparent use of Jude, possible allusions to 2nd-century gnosticism, encouragement in the wake of a delayed parousia, and weak external support.[10] In addition, specific passages offer further clues in support of pseudepigraphy, namely the author's assumption that his audience is familiar with multiple Pauline epistles (2Peter 3:15–16), his implication that the Apostolic generation has passed (2Peter 3:4), and his differentiation between himself and "the apostles of the Lord and Savior"
Most scholars don't believe in heaven, hell, or GOD ---- go figure!
If so, it's because books like the Bible make those propositions ridiculous. The angry spoiled brat of a deity that you and Jack Chick consider supreme says more about you than about anything divine.
So, Nipper, you really don't care if the Bible is a pile of forgeries as long as what it says saves you from having to study and think? I guess copying and pasting stuff you don't understand is somehow an act of piety, like Hare Krishnas repeating the same prayer 1700 times a day so that thoughts don't intrude...thinking is so hard, isn't it?
2nd Peter Chapter three from the New King James Version:
2 Peter 3 (NKJV)
1 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us,[a] the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.[c] 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which
14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
Footnotes:
2 Peter 3:2 NU-Text and M-Text read commandment of the apostles of your Lord and Savior or commandment of your apostles of the Lord and Savior. 2 Peter 3:9 NU-Text reads you. 2 Peter 3:10 NU-Text reads laid bare (literally found).
This Passage from 2nd Peter Chapter three is pretty good evidence that Saint Peter didn't really authored 2nd Peter:
15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
From Wikipedia:
In addition, specific passages offer further clues in support of pseudepigraphy, namely the author's assumption that his audience is familiar with multiple Pauline epistles (2Peter 3:15–16), his implication that the Apostolic generation has passed (2Peter 3:4), and his differentiation between himself and "the apostles of the Lord and Savior" (2Peter 3:2). Link
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
Dear friends, I am writing you now this 2nd letter; and in both letters I am trying to prod you towards wholesome thinking by means of reminders ---
so that you will keep remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the command given by the Lord and Deliverer through your apostles.
First, understand this: during the latter days, mockers will come, following their own desires
and asking, “Where is this promised ‘arrivial’ of Him? For our fathers have died, and everything continues as it has since the beginning of creation.”
But, wanting so much to be "correct" concerning this, they disregard the fact that it was by God’s Word that long ago there were heavens, and there was land which arose out of water and existed between the water above and that underneath,
And by means of these things the world of that period was flooded with water and destroyed.
It is by that same Word that the present heavens and earth, having been preserved, are being held for fire until the Day of Judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed.
Additionally, dear friends, do not ignore this: with the Lord, 1 day is like a 1000 years and a 1000 years like 1 day
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some people imagine slow; quite the contrary, He is patient with you; for it is not His desire that anyone should be destroyed, but that everyone should turn from sin.
However, the Day of the Lord will come “like a thief.” On that Day the sky and outer space will disappear with a roar, the elements will melt and disintegrate, and the earth and everything in it will be consumed.
Since everything is going to be destroyed this way, what type of people should you be? You should lead holy and godly lives,
as you wait for the Day of God and work to hurry its approach. That Day will bring on the destruction of the the sky and outer space by fire, and the elements will melt from the heat.
However we, following along with His promise, wait for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness will be comfortable.
Therefore, dear friends, as you look for these things, do everything you can to be found by Him without spot or defect and peaceful.
And think of our Lord’s patience as deliverance, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you, following the wisdom God gave him.
Yes, he speaks about these things in all his letters. They contain some things that are difficult to understand, things which the uninstructed and unstable distort, to their own destruction, as they do the other portions of the Bible.
But you, dear friends, since you know this in advance, protect yourselves; so that you will not be led away by the errors of the wicked and fall from your own safe position.
And keep growing in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Deliverer, Jesus the Messiah. To Him be the glory, both now and eternally! So be it.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1This, now, beloved, a second letter to you I write, in both which I stir up your pure mind in reminding [you],
2 to be mindful of the sayings said before by the holy prophets, and of the command of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour,
3 this first knowing, that there shall come in the latter end of the days scoffers, according to their own desires going on,
4 and saying, `Where is the promise of his presence? for since the fathers did fall asleep, all things so remain from the beginning of the creation;'
5 for this is unobserved by them willingly, that the heavens were of old, and the earth out of water and through water standing together by the word of God,
6 through which the then world, by water having been deluged, was destroyed;
7 and the present heavens and the earth, by the same word are treasured, for fire being kept to a day of judgment and destruction of the impious men.
8 And this one thing let not be unobserved by you, beloved, that one day with the Lord [is] as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day;
9 the Lord is not slow in regard to the promise, as certain count slowness, but is long-suffering to us, not counselling any to be lost but all to pass on to reformation,
10 and it will come -- the day of the Lord -- as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.
11 All these, then, being dissolved, what kind of persons doth it behove you to be in holy behaviours and pious acts?
12 waiting for and hasting to the presence of the day of God, by which the heavens, being on fire, shall be dissolved, and the elements with burning heat shall melt;
13 and for new heavens and a new earth according to His promise we do wait, in which righteousness doth dwell;
14 wherefore, beloved, these things waiting for, be diligent, spotless and unblameable, by Him to be found in peace,
15 and the long-suffering of our Lord count ye salvation, according as also our beloved brother Paul -- according to the wisdom given to him -- did write to you,
16 as also in all the epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, among which things are certain hard to be understood, which the untaught and unstable do wrest, as also the other Writings, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye, then, beloved, knowing before, take heed, lest, together with the error of the impious being led away, ye may fall from your own stedfastness,
18 and increase ye in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ; to him [is] the glory both now, and to the day of the age! Amen.
littlenipper doesn't know any Bible version above YLT (Young's Literal Translation)
- 1. there is no such thing as literal translation for old (hundreds of years old) texts, as we don't know the culture of that times enough...
- 2. littlenipper doesn't read other versions; they don't fit to his ethos - if there is such thing
- 3. private opinion - no private evidence... - littlenipper doesn't speak other languages than english (by the way i am speaking 3 of; romanian, hungarian and german, and write/read one more here...) i testify that no such thing as literal translation - even now
Choyo Chagas is Chairman of the Big Four, the ruler of the planet from "The Bull's Hour" ( Russian: Час Быка), a social science fiction novel written by Soviet author and paleontologist Ivan Yefremov in 1968. Six months after its publication Soviet authorities banned the book and attempted to remove it from libraries and bookshops.
littlenipper doesn't know any Bible version above YLT (Young's Literal Translation)
- 1. there is no such thing as literal translation for old (hundreds of years old) texts, as we don't know the culture of that times enough...
- 2. littlenipper doesn't read other versions; they don't fit to his ethos - if there is such thing
- 3. private opinion - no private evidence... - littlenipper doesn't speak other languages than english (by the way i am speaking 3 of; romanian, hungarian and german, and write/read one more here...) i testify that no such thing as literal translation - even now
You obviously never heard of Hebrew and Greek. So while there maybe some difficulties, with a little study and insight and most importantly Divine influence ----- NOTHING is impossible. If I say, "HALT!' in german, you'd understand and plenty of others who don't know german would understand too ---- I reckon!
