Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

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_Bond James Bond
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Bond James Bond »

gdemetz wrote:He makes a good point that your flavor of scientists accept the Egyptian account, but reject the Hebrew account.


What? Expound please.

(And it would be appreciated if you'd start using the quote feature so that it will be easier to know who you're talking to.)
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

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I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
_gdemetz
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _gdemetz »

Check out the article by Dr. Livingston entitled "Creation Vs. Evolution." It's that Dr. Livingston.
_Themis
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Themis »

gdemetz wrote:He makes a good point that your flavor of scientists accept the Egyptian account, but reject the Hebrew account.


Our flavor of scientist? LOL It's not really and us and them, or at least it's not in the scientific world. It may be for the young earth creationists, but the they put anyone in the "them" category if they say anything they don't like. Again I suggest you talk to LDS scientists who have degrees in things like geology, biology, physics, etc. Most don't believe in a global flood. You might ask them why.
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_Tobin
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Tobin »

I hate to agree with the posters here, but the more gdemetz posts about this topic - the more apparent it becomes that he lives in a state of denial. I can't think of many scientists that would back up his ideas about a world-wide flood (even LDS ones) or his ideas about the age of the Egyptian civilization. I have spent a considerable amount of time myself looking at this (and reading various sources) and concluded there is almost nothing credible to indicate a world-wide flood for example. I still believe it is possible, but am resigned that the most likely explanation for the world-wide flood stories (from many cultures) come from local flood events and not a world-wide event.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_bcuzbcuz
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _bcuzbcuz »

gdemetz wrote:Check out the article by Dr. Livingston entitled "Creation Vs. Evolution." It's that Dr. Livingston.


Which articles? And here I use the term loosely. Some of his articles of "proof" are hardly a page long. Furthermore his articles lack footnotes and references. Did this guy actually get a PhD?

He, himself list five articles on Creation vs. Evolution:


Creation vs Evolution
The Five Pillars of Evolution

Was Adam a Caveman?

Prehistoric Man

The "Days" of the Creation Week

Evidence Invalidates Geological Column

The Geological Age of the Earth vs. Miracles

The Great Flood
A Universal Flood: 3000 BC
(Updated version presented at NEAS 11.16.2005)
Audio -- A Universal Flood: 3000 BC

The Date of Noah's Flood

The Flood

The Flood and Subsequent Civilization

Genesis 1 - 11
Correlating the Texts of Ancient Literature with the Old Testament

Creation Stories of the Ancient Near East

Who Were the "Sons of God" in Genesis 6?

Who Was "Nimrod"?

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And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love...you make. PMcC
_Bond James Bond
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Bond James Bond »

gdemetz wrote:Check out the article by Dr. Livingston entitled "Creation Vs. Evolution." It's that Dr. Livingston.


I checked. The site is a joke that is reliant on biased as well as very old sources. Not to mention the guy assumes the Bible is absolutely correct.

Main website:
http://davelivingston.com/tableofcontents.htm
Article:
http://davelivingston.com/fivepillars.htm
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
_gdemetz
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _gdemetz »

Well, I respect your opinion as it is obvious that you are a well educated person. We just have different viewpoints.
_bcuzbcuz
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _bcuzbcuz »

gdemetz wrote:He makes a good point that your flavor of scientists accept the Egyptian account, but reject the Hebrew account.


I don't accept the Hebrew account because it plays so liberally with dates, and absolutely NO archaeological evidence has been found to back up its chronology.

We can stay away from Noah for a bit, and choose someone much more recent in Biblical history, Moses.

Moses came into Biblical stories around 2300-2400 years after Adam, approximately 1550 before Christ, then he lives for 120 years (his brother Aaron lives 123 years). Moses leads 600,000 men (not counting women and children, and livestock and bread) at the age of 80-81, out of Egypt. Exodus 12.

He takes these 600,000 men, plus women and children, out into the Sinai desert for 40 years. The one piece of evidence that seems to be left are the ten commandments written on stone tablets.....but they're not to be viewed except in the ark of the covenant...which nobody is allowed to look at even if they know where the ark is.

Many, many archaeologists have explored and dug and searched for any traces of these more than one million people in the desert. If you know of any artifacts from the 40 year trek in the desert feel free to enlighten me. Apparently these soldiers and women and children left no fire sites, no garbage, no camp sites, nothing. No one on this trek ever lost anything, like a piece of jewelry, which they apparently took with them. No one ever lost a shoe or tossed away a weapon. No one ever built a latrine. Isn't that odd?

I don't believe Moses lived to be 120 years old. I don't believe that 600,000 soldiers trekked around with him for 40 years in the desert without leaving a single piece of evidence of being there.

Meanwhile, the Egyptians were building huge grave sites, fashioning exquisite jewelry, building buildings, planting crops and painting beautiful pictures of each detail of their lives...both before and after the time of Moses. Hundreds of thousands and even millions of artifacts still exist from the Egyptians. Some of these things were carved in stone, some were made of wood but they have even left clothes and foods and grains from the same time of Moses.

So, yes, my favourite flavour is Egyptian.
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love...you make. PMcC
_gdemetz
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _gdemetz »

Come on guys, there are many others with PHD's who agree with me. Jewish history not accurate, and no evidence for an exodus from Egypt?! Now your prejudices are really showing! I would suggest that you check out these sites:

"Has the Exodus Really Been Disproven?"
"Archaeological Evidence for the Exodus"
"The Catholic Knight, Science and the Exodus"

There are many more.
_Bond James Bond
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Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Bond James Bond »

gdemetz wrote:Come on guys, there are many others with PHD's who agree with me. Jewish history not accurate, and no evidence for an exodus from Egypt?! Now your prejudices are really showing! I would suggest that you check out these sites:

"Has the Exodus Really Been Disproven?"
"Archaeological Evidence for the Exodus"
"The Catholic Knight, Science and the Exodus"

There are many more.


Links would be helpful.

(I hope one of the sites uses the Red Sea = Sea of Reeds as evidence the Exodus was possible).
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
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