Bible verse by verse

[_Maksutov]

So many errors in your post. Yes, there is a natural order. Unfortunately, the understanding of it that has been extensively documented and developed over the last several hundred years is lost on you because it isn't in your bundle of Bronze Age fables. I'm a superficial person? I'm a person trying to grapple with the lessons of the past that people have given their lives for. You're the ungrateful amnesiac who belittles scientists while writing on a network designed by them. You defend mail order fantasies masquerading as education and promoted by convicted felons like Kent Hovind. You cling to a fantasy of a massive boat that could hold representative samples of millions of species and transport them and keep them alive and from destroying eachother, to land on a mountain top and disperse them all over the globe from there. It's up there with Santa visiting all the chimneys on Christmas eve, it's on par with Easter Bunnies and Tooth Fairies and goblins and all the dramas of childhood. It's quite remarkable to see so many alleged adults who maintain a massive part of their lives in an infantile state. I don't think it's a character flaw, I think it's a toxic subculture that lives parasitically off of healthier greater societies. It's not to your credit that you seek to perpetuate it.

The Bible can be a body of literature that can be understood in historical and scientific perspective but more often it has been weaponized for intracultural advantage. I won't honor that, any more than I will respect cultic approaches to the Bible, the Q'ran, the Urantia Book or The Origin of Species.

Someday soon you will die and after that comes judgement. As you grow old you will see how time seems so fleeting, and you will find no comfort from your works. I point to the manger and you and your sort points to Santa. I point to the cross and you the Easter Bunny. I point to eternity and you point to fairies, aliens, and zombies. I point to the savior and you are trying to save yourself. I would suggest the you are infantile when one weighs your standards against those of the LORD.

Threatening me with the old hellfire. How predictable. When the Puritans arrived in America, fleeing persecution, the first thing they did was start persecuting other Christians. Your fabulous Christians burned other Christians at the stake because they disagreed about the nature of the Trinity.

I'm infantile? I deal with adult problems and find solutions. You cling to childhood and call it holy. My "sort" create new things, we explore the universe, we learn new knowledge. You prefer to be as a child forever crying to daddy to save you.

You know the standards of the Lord? Ah, the arrogance. You, a person who cannot explain the book you're copying, understand the mind and plans and history of a supreme being that created the universe. You, a person without the most basic understanding of science, hypocritically use science and benefit from it while denying it. So we can also add dishonesty and hypocrisy to the "standards of the Lord".

Your book, as used by you, is an ugly thing. It is a hammer to crush dissent and an excuse for failures, a smokescreen and a mask. You long for a time when it was supreme, a hunger for your own Christian Sharia where the scholars and scientists and doctors and historians fear the rule of the self-appointed prophets and saints and messiahs. A country where the Constitution and democracy are discarded so that King Jesus can rule and all knees will bend to his "representatives". We've seen this movie before. It's a horror show and it ends in madness and blood. Just the kind of world, just the kind of "standards" that guarantee endless conflict and war, that the founders of America learned from and sought to avoid.

And so, dear Nipper, you must get used to my "sort". You have a sock puppet God to try and threaten us with but it is forever a bluff and we know it. Just like all the other cults and religions have bluffed. Do you know that there are over 20,000 denominations of Christianity? No, you didn't. Nor can you grasp the implications of that. Nor will you try. It's okay, your book is almost done and you've changed nothing. It has provided an opportunity to show others that your fetish is not scholarship or knowledge.

Rest assured that you will find my "sort" out there questioning your book and your stories and excuses. They will laugh at your empty curses and threats too. And those looking on will realize how small and pathetic the great GOD truly is and always was.

[_LittleNipper]

Revelation 17:1-18

Then one of the angels with the seven bowls came to me and said, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is sitting by many waters.

The rulers of the earth went whoring with her, and the people living on earth have become drunk from the wine of her whoring.”

He carried me off spiritually to a desert, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast filled with blasphemous names having heads and horns.

This woman was dressed in purple and scarlet and glittered with gold, precious stones and pearls. In her hand was a gold cup filled with obscene and filthy things produced by her whoring.

On her forehead was written a name with a hidden meaning, BABYLON THE GREAT MOTHER OF WHORES AND OF THE EARTH’S OBSCENITIES

I saw the woman drunk from the blood of God’s people, that is, from the blood of the people testifying of Jesus.

On seeing her, I was totally astounded.

Then the angel asked me, “Why are you shocked? I will tell you the hidden meaning of the woman and of the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns carrying her.

The beast you observed existed previously, presently is not, and will come up from the Abyss ---- on its way to destruction. The people living on earth whose names have not been written in the Book of Life since the founding of the world will be shocked to see the beast that once was, now is not, but is to appear.

This calls for some deep thinking: the 7 heads are 7 hills on which the woman is sitting; also they represent 7 rulers —

5 have fallen, 1 is presently living and the other is yet to arrive; and when he finally arrives, he must stay only a little while.

The beast which once was and now is not is an 8th ruler. It originates from the 7 and is on its way to destruction.

The 10 horns you observed are 10 rulers who have not yet begun to rule, but they receive power as rulers for one hour, along with the beast.

They are like minded, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast.

They will go to war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will defeat them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are called, chosen and faithful will overcome along with Him.”

Then he said to me, “The waters that you observed, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, crowds, nations and languages.

As for the 10 horns that you saw and the beast, they will hate the whore, bring her to ruin, leave her naked, eat her flesh and consume her with fire.

For God put it in their hearts to do what will fulfill His purpose, that is, to be of one mind and give their kingdom to the beast until God’s words have been fulfilled.

And the woman you observed is the great city that lords over the rulers of the earth.”


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And there came one of the seven messengers, who were having the seven vials, and he spake with me, saying to me, `Come, I will shew to thee the judgment of the great whore, who is sitting upon the many waters,

2 with whom the kings of the earth did commit whoredom; and made drunk from the wine of her whoredom were those inhabiting the earth;'

3 and he carried me away to a wilderness in the Spirit, and I saw a woman sitting upon a scarlet-coloured beast, full of names of evil-speaking, having seven heads and ten horns,

4 and the woman was arrayed with purple and scarlet-colour, and gilded with gold, and precious stone, and pearls, having a golden cup in her
hand full of abominations and uncleanness of her whoredom,

5 and upon her forehead was a name written: `Secret, Babylon the Great, the Mother of the Whores, and the Abominations of the earth.'

6 And I saw the woman drunken from the blood of the saints, and from the blood of the witnesses of Jesus, and I did wonder -- having seen her -- with great wonder;

7 and the messenger said to me, `Wherefore didst thou wonder? I -- I will tell thee the secret of the woman and of the beast that [is] carrying her, which hath the seven heads and the ten horns.

8 `The beast that thou didst see: it was, and it is not; and it is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go away to destruction, and wonder
shall those dwelling upon the earth, whose names have not been written upon the scroll of the life from the foundation of the world, beholding the beast that was, and is not, although it is.

9 `Here [is] the mind that is having wisdom; the seven heads are seven mountains, upon which the woman doth sit,

10 and there are seven kings, the five did fall, and the one is, the other did not yet come, and when he may come, it behoveth him to remain a little time;

11 and the beast that was, and is not, he also is eighth, and out of the seven he is, and to destruction he doth go away.

12 `And the ten horns that thou sawest, are ten kings, who a kingdom did not yet receive, but authority as kings the same hour do receive with the beast,

13 these have one mind, and their own power and authority to the beast they shall give over;

14 these with the Lamb shall make war, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because Lord of lords he is, and King of kings, and those with him are called, and choice, and stedfast.'

15 And he saith to me, `The waters that thou didst see, where the whore doth sit, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues;'

16 and the ten horns that thou didst see upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and shall burn her in fire,

17 for God did give into their hearts to do its mind, and to make one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast till the sayings of God may be complete,

18 and the woman that thou didst see is the great city that is having reign over the kings of the land.'

[_Choyo Chagas]

four day and we are free of your squandermania of bandwidth and storage

what next?

hebrew? latin? greek?
i am certain you know them all --- and produce us your own LITERAL translations

three times 230 pages...

[_LittleNipper]

Revelation 18:1-24

Following this, I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, the earth was lit up by his splendor.

He cried out loudly, “She has collapsed! Collapsed ! Babylon the Great! She has become a home for demons, a prison for every unclean spirit, a prison for every unclean, hated bird.

“For all the nations have consumed the wine of God’s wrath brought about by her whoring. Absolutely, the rulers of the earth went whoring with her, and from her unrestrained love of luxury the world’s businessmen have become rich.”

Then I heard another voice out of heaven proclaim: “My people, come out of her, so that you will not share in her sins, and you will not be infected by her plagues,

For her sins are massive pile up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.

“Dish out to her as she dished out to others! Pay her back double for her deeds! Use the cup in which she has brewed to brew her a double-sized drink!

“Give her as much torment and sorrow as the glory and luxury she consumed for herself! For in her heart she says, ‘I sit a queen — I'm not a widow, I will never know sorrow.’

“Therefore, her plagues will arrive in a single day — death, sorrow and famine; and she will be consumed with fire, because the Lord, God, her Judge, is mighty”

The rulers of the earth who went whoring with her and shared her luxury will cry and weep over her when they see the smoke as she burns.

Standing at a distance, for fear of her torment, they will say, “Oh no! The great city! Babylon, the mighty city! In a single hour your judgment has arrived!”

The world’s businessmen weep and mourn over her, because no one is buying their merchandise ever again —

stocks of gold and silver, gems and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, all rare woods, all ivory goods, all kinds of things made of scented wood, brass, iron and marble;

cinnamon, cardamom, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, flour, grain, cattle, sheep, horses, chariots — and bodies — and people’s souls.

The fruits you lusted for with all your heart have gone! All the luxury and flashiness have been destroyed, never to return!

The sellers of these things, who got rich from her, will stand at a distance, for fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,

and saying, “Oh no! The great city used to wear fine linen, purple and scarlet! She glittered with gold, precious stones and pearls!

Such great wealth — in a single hour, all gone! All the ship masters, passengers, sailors and everyone making his living from the sea stood at a distance

and cried out when they saw the smoke as she burned, “What city was like that great city?”

And they threw dust on their heads as they wept and mourned, saying, “Oh no! The great city! The abundance of her wealth made all the ship owners rich! In a single hour she is destroyed!”

Rejoice over her, heaven! Rejoice, people of God, apostles and prophets! For in judging her, God has vindicated you.

Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a giant millstone, and hurled it into the sea, saying, “With violence like this will the great city Babylon be hurled down, never to be discovered again!

The sound of harpists and musicians, flute-players and trumpeters will never again be heard in you. No worker of any trade will ever again be found in you, the sound of a mill will never again be heard in you,

the light of a lamp will never again enlighten you, the voice of bridegroom and bride will never again be heard in you. For your businessmen were the most powerful on earth, all the gentiles were taken in under your magic spell.

In her was discovered the blood of prophets and God’s people, in fact, of all who have ever been slaughtered on earth!”

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And after these things I saw another messenger coming down out of the heaven, having great authority, and the earth was lightened from his glory,

2 and he did cry in might -- a great voice, saying, `Fall, fall did Babylon the great, and she became a habitation of demons, and a hold of every unclean spirit, and a hold of every unclean and hateful bird,

3 because of the wine of the wrath of her whoredom have all the nations drunk, and the kings of the earth with her did commit whoredom, and merchants of the earth from the power of her revel were made rich.

4 And I heard another voice out of the heaven, saying, `Come forth out of her, My people, that ye may not partake with her sins, and that ye may not receive of her plagues,

5 because her sins did follow -- unto the heaven, and God did remember her unrighteousness.

6 Render to her as also she did render to you, and double to her doubles according to her works; in the cup that she did mingle mingle to her double.

7 `As much as she did glorify herself and did revel, so much torment and sorrow give to her, because in her heart she saith, I sit a queen, and a widow I am not, and sorrow I shall not see;

8 because of this, in one day, shall come her plagues, death, and sorrow, and famine; and in fire she shall be utterly burned, because strong [is] the Lord God who is judging her;

9 and weep over her, and smite themselves for her, shall the kings of the earth, who with her did commit whoredom and did revel, when they may see the smoke of her burning,

10 from afar having stood because of the fear of her torment, saying, Wo, wo, the great city! Babylon, the strong city! because in one hour did come thy judgment.

11 `And the merchants of the earth shall weep and sorrow over her, because their lading no one doth buy any more;

12 lading of gold, and silver, and precious stone, and pearl, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyne wood, and every vessel of ivory, and every vessel of most precious wood, and brass, and iron, and marble,

13 and cinnamon, and odours, and ointment, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and cattle, and sheep, and of horses, and of chariots, and of bodies and souls of men.

14 `And the fruits of the desire of thy soul did go away from thee, and all things -- the dainty and the bright -- did go away from thee, and no more at all mayest thou find them.

15 The merchants of these things, who were made rich by her, far off shall stand because of the fear of her torment, weeping, and sorrowing,

16 and saying, Wo, wo, the great city, that was arrayed with fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and gilded in gold, and precious stone, and pearls -- because in one hour so much riches were made waste!

17 `And every shipmaster, and all the company upon the ships, and sailors, and as many as work the sea, far off stood,

18 and were crying, seeing the smoke of her burning, saying, What [city is] like to the great city?

19 and they did cast dust upon their heads, and were crying out, weeping and sorrowing, saying, Wo, wo, the great city! in which were made rich all having ships in the sea, out of her costliness -- for in one hour was she made waste.

20 `Be glad over her, O heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets, because God did judge your judgment of her!'

21 And one strong messenger did take up a stone as a great millstone, and did cast [it] to the sea, saying, `Thus with violence shall Babylon be cast, the great city, and may not be found any more at all;

22 and voice of harpers, and musicians, and pipers, and trumpeters, may not be heard at all in thee any more; and any artizan of any art may not be found at all in thee any more; and noise of a millstone may not be heard at all in thee any more;

23 and light of a lamp may not shine at all in thee any more; and voice of bridegroom and of bride may not be heard at all in thee any more; because thy merchants were the great ones of the earth, because in thy sorcery were all the nations led astray,

24 and in her blood of prophets and of saints was found, and of all those who have been slain on the earth.'

[_Maksutov]

The writer loves to dwell on the idea of Babylon collapsing. Of course it collapsed, as did Rome and all other governments extant at the time. It's fascinating how worldly and political all this is, though dressed up in gaudy allegory. Kind of like a political cartoon in words, rather grotesque and polemical.

[_huckelberry]

The writer loves to dwell on the idea of Babylon collapsing. Of course it collapsed, as did Rome and all other governments extant at the time. It's fascinating how worldly and political all this is, though dressed up in gaudy allegory. Kind of like a political cartoon in words, rather grotesque and polemical.

Maksutov,
Of course it is worldly and political.You were looking for something else?
Gaudy? I can see that, bit over the top? Style made it memorable however.(like a political cartoon)

[_Maksutov]

The writer loves to dwell on the idea of Babylon collapsing. Of course it collapsed, as did Rome and all other governments extant at the time. It's fascinating how worldly and political all this is, though dressed up in gaudy allegory. Kind of like a political cartoon in words, rather grotesque and polemical.

Maksutov,
Of course it is worldly and political.You were looking for something else?
Gaudy? I can see that, bit over the top? Style made it memorable however.(like a political cartoon)

When you're told that a book is the greatest book on earth and God's Word, you develop some expectations.

Well, I've been told that it has to do with spiritual matters, but really, it's a political commercial, and an unconvincing and incoherent one at that. Once again we see an infinite being supposedly siding with one jealous and petty little tribe against another. My God can beat up your God. Only tradition and conditioning have managed to imbue it with greater significance. It's like reading the letters to the editor in an old newspaper. The people are all dead and the issues faded away into irrelevance.

[_Brackite]

Links to Revelation Chapters 19 and 20 from the King James Version:

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Re ... hapter-19/

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Re ... hapter-20/



From The New King James Version:

Revelation 20 (NKJV)

1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.


Footnotes:

Revelation 20:4 M-Text reads the.
Revelation 20:10 NU-Text and M-Text add also.
Revelation 20:12 NU-Text and M-Text read the throne.
Revelation 20:14 NU-Text and M-Text add the lake of fire.




The word 'dragon' is found only in the Book of Revelation within the Bible.

[_huckelberry]

Well, I've been told that it has to do with spiritual matters, but really, it's a political commercial, and an unconvincing and incoherent one at that. Once again we see an infinite being supposedly siding with one jealous and petty little tribe against another. My God can beat up your God. Only tradition and conditioning have managed to imbue it with greater significance. It's like reading the letters to the editor in an old newspaper. The people are all dead and the issues faded away into irrelevance.

Maksutov,
I found myself wondering if there was any desire to discuss whether there was a difference between political and spiritual.Probably a significant difference if political means two or more parties at war with each other as we have been treated to in US recent decades. On the other hand if political is the process people use to work out how they live together in groups it might be not only be essential to people's physical survival but their spirituality as well. But this other version, my petty little Democratic or Republican tribe can beat yours, does intrude a lot.

I do not think that the tribal thing is in view in Revelations. Instead Christianity is looking to one God who is the God of all people and is concerned with all peoples. Christianity carries a criticism of all tribes for the things they do creating violence. It is an offer to leave the tribal warfare .

Now I realize and you as well, that the allure of my tribe against your tribe politics has repeatedly overwhelmed Christianity. It is possible you would react to my proposed image with a, you are kidding me, reaction. I have wondered a few times. I can admit as well that I may consider that Revelations may have a mixture of both versions of politics. I do not think it is the strongest book in the New Testament.

[_Maksutov]

I do not think it is the strongest book in the New Testament.

I think it would be the most fun to do a movie of. Lots of CGI. Probably not for kids.