Divining Rods and DCP

[_jon]

I agree that it would not work any better then chance under testing, but what choice do apologists have but to say it did work for Joseph, but maybe it didn't for anyone else. The evidence that he used it in the production of the Book of Mormon is obvious and so it cannot really be abandoned without also abandoning the Book of Mormon.

The church reportedly has several of Joseph's seer stones in their vault, including one he used for translating the Book of Mormon. I don't suppose the church would be up for an experiment?

The Church had the opportunity to demonstrate their effectiveness when the Papyri was rediscovered.
Option 1: Have a Prophet of God use the seer stone to translate the papyri
Option 2: State categorically that Joseph's translation was correct and affirm that there is no need to check it any further
Option 3: Ignore option 1 and 2 and give it to someone else (non-qualified?) to check over wether Joseph got it right or not

What would Joseph have done...?
What would a real Prophet have done...?

[_Themis]

The Church had the opportunity to demonstrate their effectiveness when the Papyri was rediscovered.
Option 1: Have a Prophet of God use the seer stone to translate the papyri
Option 2: State categorically that Joseph's translation was correct and affirm that there is no need to check it any further
Option 3: Ignore option 1 and 2 and give it to someone else (non-qualified?) to check over wether Joseph got it right or not

What would Joseph have done...?
What would a real Prophet have done...?

The church has never had anyone who could use the seer stone or translate anything from Joseph Smith on down. In some ways I think the church presidents deep down suspect this and will never put it to the test. Joseph was always making things up, but BY on down have not even tried, which is a smart thing to do. I doubt any of them had the particular skills that Joseph had.

[_Corpsegrinder]

OK, enough DCP bashing. Now getting back to the topic of the thread before it was high jacked; I'd like to discuss the relationship I've observed with those that claim divining rods work compared to the effectiveness of using of seer stones.

Not a problem, back on track with divining rods and seer stones.

The church has never had anyone who could use the seer stone or translate anything from Joseph Smith on down.

The Holy Grail of product verification would be to have a modern prophet like Thomas S. Monson test one of Joseph’s original seer stones. Monson could, for example, try his hand at a re-translation of a facsimile from the Book of Abraham. Even better, he might attempt a fresh translation of the “caractors” from the Anthon Transcript.

However, one need not be a prophet in order to operate a seer stone, just as one need not be Oliver Cordrey in order to operate a diving rod. Joseph Smith was but one of many individuals both in and out of the Church who consulted seer stones for a variety of reasons.

In other words, you don’t need a Mormon prophet in order to test a seer stone. Anybody can do it.

Hell, I think I’ll do it.

…

There, did it. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

But of course we'll need a bigger experimental sample before we can lay the topic of seer stones to rest, so I suggest the rest of us go out and try it, too.

I eagerly await the results of your own experiments.

[_Buffalo]

It probably helps to eat some magic mushrooms first.

[_LDS truthseeker]

I eagerly await the results of your own experiments.

I actually tried it. I wrote down the first six double digit numbers that came to my mind.

I'll let you know of it's effectiveness after the Powerball drawing tonight.

[_LDS truthseeker]

I eagerly await the results of your own experiments.

I actually tried it. I wrote down the first six double digit numbers that came to my mind.

I'll let you know of it's effectiveness after the Powerball drawing tonight.

Didn't work. :-(

[_Mike Reed]

Didn't work? No! You must've done something wrong then. What time of the season did you cut the branch? Was the angle of the branch's "Y" positioned for the sun or moon to pass through it? What was the time of the day/night when you used it? What was the phase of the moon? Were there any sunspots? From what sort of tree did your branch derive? Did you anoint the rod with consecrated oil? Did you smoke it with a toad? Did you have faith while using the rod? Did you forcefully command the rod to work? How do you know you even have the "gift"? Where are you in the order of birth among your siblings? Do you have any interesting looking birthmarks? How about crossed eyes, or occasional seizures? Did you dig deep enough? Did you find any curious looking rocks (seer stones) while digging? Maybe the rod was actually nodding to a rock, rather than treasure, water, or corpse. Maybe the rock/treasure/water/corpse was there, but that it “slipped” away. Did you draw any magic circles, burn magical herbs, and read from the apocrypha, to bind evil spirits and prevent them from interfering? Did you wear a magic lamen around your neck? Was the lamen drawn and folded correctly? There must be an explanation for your failure somewhere…

[_Nightlion]

Mosiah 8: 13
13 Now Ammon said unto him: I can assuredly tell thee, O king, of a man that can translate the records; for he has wherewith that he can look, and translate all records that are of ancient date; and it is a gift from God. And the things are called interpreters, and no man can look in them except he be commanded, lest he should look for that he ought not and he should perish. And whosoever is commanded to look in them, the same is called seer.

Would not hurt the discussion any if a few of you guys were better read.;)

[_DrW]

Mosiah 8: 13
13 Now Ammon said unto him: I can assuredly tell thee, O king, of a man that can translate the records; for he has wherewith that he can look, and translate all records that are of ancient date; and it is a gift from God. And the things are called interpreters, and no man can look in them except he be commanded, lest he should look for that he ought not and he should perish. And whosoever is commanded to look in them, the same is called seer.

Would not hurt the discussion any if a few of you guys were better read.;)

You do know, of course, that Joseph Smith wrote this himself.
Does that not give you pause?

[_Corpsegrinder]

Didn't work? No! You must've done something wrong then. What time of the season did you cut the branch? Was the angle of the branch's "Y" positioned for the sun or moon to pass through it? What was the time of the day/night when you used it? What was the phase of the moon? Were there any sunspots? From what sort of tree did your branch derive? Did you anoint the rod with consecrated oil? Did you smoke it with a toad? Did you have faith while using the rod? Did you forcefully command the rod to work? How do you know you even have the "gift"? Where are you in the order of birth among your siblings? Do you have any interesting looking birthmarks? How about crossed eyes, or occasional seizures? Did you dig deep enough? Did you find any curious looking rocks (seer stones) while digging? Maybe the rod was actually nodding to a rock, rather than treasure, water, or corpse. Maybe the rock/treasure/water/corpse was there, but that it “slipped” away. Did you draw any magic circles, burn magical herbs, and read from the apocrypha, to bind evil spirits and prevent them from interfering? Did you wear a magic lamen around your neck? Was the lamen drawn and folded correctly? There must be an explanation for your failure somewhere…

Dude, seriously?! That's why it didn't work?

Dammit!

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