Spirituality or just emotion...?

[_Drifting]

Shalom my friend!

How astute of you! Indeed that post was referring the seven spirits of Christ. Christ (what can be called the 8th Heaven or the Kingdom of Heaven) is rayed out into seven heavens, or seven spirits, which also comprises our inner bodies. The inner and the outer being the same. It is very mysterious!

The material or physical then houses the seven rayed spirit, is a temple for God's Spirit, so that we can say our vital or emotional body at its highest point is the first heaven. The mental body the second, and then we get into our subtle bodies.

Peace.
Sheryl

Hi Sheryl,

This absolutely fascinates me. Inasmuch as I believe that there are literal AND spiritual meanings in all of scripture, I feel as though the Holy Ghost has now been leading me to more of the spiritual as opposed to helping me understand the physical patterns. It is as though this was to help prepare me for the next levels of understanding. Does this make sense?

I would love to further explore this mystery - as I had always just glossed over the seven spirits of Christ simply because I could not relate to the words. But now, I feel that there is a great deal to be understood here. It has been something Frank and I have pondered quite a bit about. Also, inasmuch as it is in the last days of the physical existence of earth before the Millenium, at which time these mysteries will begin to open up to us, I believe that this is what is happening right now.

However, I feel impressed to share that we should follow the inspiration of the Holy Ghost to determine what would be appropriate to discuss in open format.

Shalom!!

jo

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you haven't been assigned to talk about this in a Church meeting any time recently.

I'll go further and guess that each time you've brought this up (if you ever have) during Gospel Doctrine class people have sported disapproving frowns.

[_sheryl]

Hi Sheryl,

This absolutely fascinates me. Inasmuch as I believe that there are literal AND spiritual meanings in all of scripture, I feel as though the Holy Ghost has now been leading me to more of the spiritual as opposed to helping me understand the physical patterns. It is as though this was to help prepare me for the next levels of understanding. Does this make sense?

I would love to further explore this mystery - as I had always just glossed over the seven spirits of Christ simply because I could not relate to the words. But now, I feel that there is a great deal to be understood here. It has been something Frank and I have pondered quite a bit about. Also, inasmuch as it is in the last days of the physical existence of earth before the Millenium, at which time these mysteries will begin to open up to us, I believe that this is what is happening right now.

However, I feel impressed to share that we should follow the inspiration of the Holy Ghost to determine what would be appropriate to discuss in open format.

Shalom!!

jo

Hi Jo!

When we consider that all is connected, whether spiritual or material, then nothing that we can perceive is random, or standing alone by itself without any meaning. And so the layout of our universe has great depth of meaning, revealing how our inner world is likewise laid out.

The material on all levels thus is an outpouring or an expression of the spiritual realms underneath it, as well as 'beyond it.'

I have learned the stars and planets are associated with the law - they move and influence the material plane in accordance to the law. And so we have been born into these personalities, all according the movement of the stars and planets, all according to the law. This is how creation comes into being and is sustained.

According to the law, we are beasts, driven by a bestial nature and thus controlled by the law, reaping what we sowed, having to labor to 'pay off our debts', etc.

Grace though was poured out into this world through the incarnation of Yeshua Messiah, and through influxes of Grace, we are given opportunity to overcome what the law has ordained for us as beasts.

We call what unfolds in our lives according to the law, fate, and what unfolds in our lives according to Grace, destiny. With Grace all things are possible, a potential beyond our imagination (our imagination and all that we can think of is according to the law).

So the seven fold Spirit of Christ. Christ is likened to Clear Perfect Light that passed through the prism of creation, resulting in a seven fold Spirit. This seven fold spirit is behind everything that we can see and cannot see. It defines our inner being. It describes our solar system and the universe as a whole. We are given images of this raying out in nature, with the rainbow for example - it not being random that God selected it as a symbol of his covenant with us.

The seven fold spirit defines the spiritual realms, within us and without. Curious there is a correspondence between planets and stars and this seven fold spirit within ourselves.

And my dear friend, this is not new information. It is been around since ancient times. We though have to understand the power that has been wielded in this world, to control and suppress humanity, as occurred when Rome took over the public Revelation of Jesus Christ and formed the Catholic Church. What the presences told Joseph Smith was true, all the publicly known denominations of Christianity had a distorted telling of the Gospel. But what these presences did not know is that God had protected a remnant just as he promised in the Old Testament, this remnant had to remain underground though, or it would have been destroyed.

There are many groupings of this remnant, which is the true Apostolic succession. I belong to one who remained hidden in the Catholic Church until the 1700s and then separated though remaining very secretive until recent years, when being different than mainstream religions is no longer life threatening.

And yes, some of the information that your are asking about has been allowed to remain public in other cultures, our Eastern Religions carrying something of it in their religious traditions.

We have to understand God's love. It is not selective, or limited. It reveals all to all who are willing and capable of receiving.

Thus it is not God who does not give, it is we who are unable to receive.

Shalom my friend.

Sheryl

[_jo1952]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you haven't been assigned to talk about this in a Church meeting any time recently.

I'll go further and guess that each time you've brought this up (if you ever have) during Gospel Doctrine class people have sported disapproving frowns.

Hi Drifting,

Unfortunately there are not many opportunities to talk about the seven spirits of Christ, even though this appears in scripture. Revelation, in particular, is a good source. However, most people do not understand Revelation, and they readily admit it. So they simply are not interested in having any deep discussions about it. I have run into a few members who have taken some time to study Revelation; but they also are usually stumped about this issue and have no ideas which come to mind to try to explain. Recently, though, we have had some great discussions with a Seminary teacher and her husband who have been able to offer some ideas of understanding.

This does sadden me because Jesus commanded the Nephites to study the Prophets right after He had expounded to them from the foundation of the earth to the end times. Most members of the Church do not seem to have any interest in this commandment, choosing rather to focus only on what the latter-day Prophets talk about. Yet it is in the latter days that the understanding of these prophesies will begin to open to us. They aren't going to open to us if we are not studying them.

When Frank and I began a thread over at Mormon Dialogue about studying the end time prophesies, posters actually said that this was not necessary to do. They didn't know why we were even concerned about it.

Love,

jo

[_subgenius]

jo, If I recall correctly jihadists who turn into suicide bombers, do so on the back of claimed confirmation by the Holy Ghost

can you support this rather specific claim with evidence?

that they are indeed doing God's will.

agreed, but their acceptance of this notion may or may not be as confirmed by the HG, it is likely dictated as being "God's will" from a person with authority over said bomber.

Are they mistaken?

if the scenario you describe above is factual, then yes, they are mistaken.

If they are mistaken, how can one possibly distinguish between the Holy Ghost giving a feeling of God's truth and some other spirit or self indulgence giving a false feeling of truth?

The distinction is found in the fruit from the tree....blow myself up killing innocent children=bad fruit.....not blow myself up and not kill innocent children=good.
The assumption that the confirmation of the HG must somehow occur in a vacuum is rather absurd....confirmation by the HG is accompanied by actual consideration and "thinking it out" in the mind.

p.s. I like your posts even if I don't agree with some of it.

i smell an invitation to the prom

[_jo1952]

Hi Jo!

When we consider that all is connected, whether spiritual or material, then nothing that we can perceive is random, or standing alone by itself without any meaning. And so the layout of our universe has great depth of meaning, revealing how our inner world is likewise laid out.

The material on all levels thus is an outpouring or an expression of the spiritual realms underneath it, as well as 'beyond it.'

I have learned the stars and planets are associated with the law - they move and influence the material plane in accordance to the law. And so we have been born into these personalities, all according the movement of the stars and planets, all according to the law. This is how creation comes into being and is sustained.

According to the law, we are beasts, driven by a bestial nature and thus controlled by the law, reaping what we sowed, having to labor to 'pay off our debts', etc.

Grace though was poured out into this world through the incarnation of Yeshua Messiah, and through influxes of Grace, we are given opportunity to overcome what the law has ordained for us as beasts.

We call what unfolds in our lives according to the law, fate, and what unfolds in our lives according to Grace, destiny. With Grace all things are possible, a potential beyond our imagination (our imagination and all that we can think of is according to the law).

So the seven fold Spirit of Christ. Christ is likened to Clear Perfect Light that passed through the prism of creation, resulting in a seven fold Spirit. This seven fold spirit is behind everything that we can see and cannot see. It defines our inner being. It describes our solar system and the universe as a whole. We are given images of this raying out in nature, with the rainbow for example - it not being random that God selected it as a symbol of his covenant with us.

The seven fold spirit defines the spiritual realms, within us and without. Curious there is a correspondence between planets and stars and this seven fold spirit within ourselves.

And my dear friend, this is not new information. It is been around since ancient times. We though have to understand the power that has been wielded in this world, to control and suppress humanity, as occurred when Rome took over the public Revelation of Jesus Christ and formed the Catholic Church. What the presences told Joseph Smith was true, all the publicly known denominations of Christianity had a distorted telling of the Gospel. But what these presences did not know is that God had protected a remnant just as he promised in the Old Testament, this remnant had to remain underground though, or it would have been destroyed.

There are many groupings of this remnant, which is the true Apostolic succession. I belong to one who remained hidden in the Catholic Church until the 1700s and then separated though remaining very secretive until recent years, when being different than mainstream religions is no longer life threatening.

And yes, some of the information that your are asking about has been allowed to remain public in other cultures, our Eastern Religions carrying something of it in their religious traditions.

We have to understand God's love. It is not selective, or limited. It reveals all to all who are willing and capable of receiving.

Thus it is not God who does not give, it is we who are unable to receive.

Shalom my friend.

Sheryl

Hi Sheryl,

You have given so much to ponder in your last few posts. Beyond my having come to realize the layers and layers of understanding to be had from scripture, I am also very cognizant of the fact that the very method of communicating to us through verbal, written (physical world) language, is something which restricts our ability to understand the Divine until our spiritual eyes and ears are able to understand beyond the words themselves. In other words, our language (whether spoken or written) is a method to communicate which abides in the physical realm; I do not think that this is the method of communicating in the spiritual realm.

For instance, when we receive personal revelation through the Holy Spirit, it is not "words" which are used when our spirit receives the message. It is through (to use Elder Packer's example) pure intelligence which enters our mind's eyes. This would also explain why it is we are taught that Truth can only be revealed through the Holy Ghost; as well as, it is only through the Spiritual that our spirits can understand anything spiritual. We do not understand the spiritual realm through physical language at all.

Man, though, does not understand this until they have progressed sufficiently in their own personal spiritual journey. Thus, man fights over what they think the "words" mean - yet the "words" cannot reveal anything to us. They are merely representative of what the true message behind the words is. (what?...I have such poor skills in trying to express these thoughts....)

The Bible recounts stories of the spiritual realm which is everywhere around us at all times. But without spiritual eyes, we are unable to see them.

2 Kings 6:14-20

14 Therefore sent he thither horses, and chariots, and a great host: and they came by night, and compassed the city about.
15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?
16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.
17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
18 And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the LORD, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.
19 And Elisha said unto them, This is not the way, neither is this the city: follow me, and I will bring you to the man whom ye seek. But he led them to Samaria.
20 And it came to pass, when they were come into Samaria, that Elisha said, LORD, open the eyes of these men, that they may see. And the LORD opened their eyes, and they saw; and, behold, they were in the midst of Samaria.

Or here:

Daniel 10:12-13

12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Of great interest to me was a passage we were studying from D&C 132 just two nights ago. The last part of verse 19 says:

and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all thing, as hath been sealed upon their heads (and this is referring to what was earlier explained in this section of the D&C, as what was sealed upon them by the Holy Spirit of Promise), which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

This seems to confirm at least a part of what you have shared with us.

Where you speak of the "presences" who visited Joseph Smith, we have been taught that they were Father and Jesus. Also, there are several instances in the Bible where we hear the voice of Father proclaiming things such as, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." Now, in reading your other posts, and in connection with discussing the seven spirits of Christ, do you think that the presences were one of the spirits of Christ and one of the spirits of Father which can be made manifest in the earth's physical realm within the sphere of the spiritual realm where the earth exists? Would this also be your interpretation as well for times in the Bible we would be given messages like the example I just gave? In other words, were they hearing the voice of one of the spirits of Father speaking because that was the unfolding of that spirit of Father's which can manifest in this realm?

Shalom!!

jo

[_jo1952]

jo, If I recall correctly jihadists who turn into suicide bombers, do so on the back of claimed confirmation by the Holy Ghost (or their name for this) that they are indeed doing God's will.

Are they mistaken?
If they are mistaken, how can one possibly distinguish between the Holy Ghost giving a feeling of God's truth and some other spirit or self indulgence giving a false feeling of truth?

Hi Drifting,

I believe that there are basically two forces always working around us which we cannot see (not including the Holy Ghost): 1) Forces working for Good; and, 2) forces working for Evil. On top of this, we have our own world view influencing how we perceive things and how we will interpret what is going on around us. Thus it is that we can misinterpret the source of spiritual influences which we receive.

So, now we must test the influences we receive. This is also a cause for the importance of being able to discern the Holy Ghost from all of the other "noise" (if you will). by the way, before we go any further, I would like to point out that, inasmuch as I am continually learning, what I share today may not be exactly how I will share it at some future point. That is because today's understanding is lacking the benefit of what will be added upon it tomorrow. Therefore, my understanding becomes more specific as it is added upon, though the basic message will not change. However, the depth of the message will increase. Okay, back to the subject. If the message we receive results in bad fruit (which is a subject for a different thread), then it cannot have come from a Good source. Therefore, I would offer that the jihadists are mistaken.

I admit freely that I do not understand a lot yet. The more I learn, the more I realize there is that much more to learn. I also know that I am still blind to whatever I do not yet understand. That's because it IS still unknown by me; and how can anyone know what they are blind to? If they already know something, then they aren't blind to it anymore; but until they know something, then they don't know that they don't know. (yikes...) I also realize that it is very difficult to converse about the ideas we hold to about the Holy Ghost. Until we are into our spiritual awakening, there is just no way to be able to explain it to someone who has not yet experienced their own awakening.

p.s. I like your posts even if I don't agree with some of it.

Wow, thank you. I have actually been thinking the same about your posts. You beat me to the punch, for which I apologize. Your method of discussion seems to come from a point of a true desire to understand my beliefs, as opposed to a place where you are judging them. This is very much appreciated; and, also a way for us to be able to learn and share with each other.

Love,

jo

[Guest]

Where you speak of the "presences" who visited Joseph Smith, we have been taught that they were Father and Jesus. Also, there are several instances in the Bible where we hear the voice of Father proclaiming things such as, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." Now, in reading your other posts, and in connection with discussing the seven spirits of Christ, do you think that the presences were one of the spirits of Christ and one of the spirits of Father which can be made manifest in the earth's physical realm within the sphere of the spiritual realm where the earth exists? Would this also be your interpretation as well for times in the Bible we would be given messages like the example I just gave? In other words, were they hearing the voice of one of the spirits of Father speaking because that was the unfolding of that spirit of Father's which can manifest in this realm?

Shalom!!

jo

Hi Jo!

You are so right on the limitations of human words, which is why the idea of a singular interpretation of living scripture is rather foolish to say the least! There are layers of interpretations unfolding in time and space, hence it is living!

To answer your questions we first need to lay additional groundwork. Now various traditions use differing images and words to describe this delineation in scripture, but we are well founded in the Jewish model as described in the written and oral tradition, so I will speak from there.

The seven fold spirit raying actually occurs on five levels or spiritual universes - there are five spiritual universes, unfolding from one another, each with a raying out the seven fold spirit of Christ. So that one raying out unfolds into the next universe, that raying out into the next and so on.

There are many ways to describe the five universes. A simple way that fits into our personal experience is that the five universes represent Divine Will, Mind, Thought, Speech, and Action - the physical universe being part of the Universe of Action. This makes sense when we look at how we create - we do so through the Five Universes as well. Same pattern.

Another way of looking at the Universes, which ties into answering your questions, is that the Universe of Will is the Universe of Archetypes, Divine Ideals, Potential (This is the beginning of the delineation of God into Father, Holy Spirit and Son), the Universe of Mind is the Universe of the Divine Names or the Divine Attributes expressing the Ideal. The Universe of Thought is the Universe of Archangels, incredible Powers that carry and manifest the Attributes representing the Ideal. The Universe of Speech is the Universe of Hosts of Angels, or the raying out into a multiplicity of beings whom all carry these Divine Attributes to some extent, for by now we have shades and shadows in creation (the consequence of form) allowing for the introduction of evil. The Universe of Action can also be called the Universe of Manifestation, where the Ideal becomes manifested, of course at something less that the Ideal, but still representing the Archetype. (Such as we see with the Tabernacle of Moses. He was shown in vision the Ideal, and manifested a lesser version here in the physical.)

Everything in materiality is a lesser manifestation of the Ideal in the Highest Universe, until Jesus. What made Jesus Messiah is that he was a physical manifestation that was directly and perfected joined with all these layers upon layers of creation, in perfect alignment with the Divine Ideal at the Universe of Will. Not my will but Yours be done. His Body, then, is not just the physical but all the layers and layers of realms and universes with which he was aligned. He was the perfect manifestation of the Father in physicality, being in perfect alignment with the Son in the Universe of Will.

Now a vision of the Father can be seen in Ezekiel 1. What Ezekiel described in his vision of God, was looking into and through these Universes. For example, the four living creatures that he sees are the host of angels emanating from the Father (YHVH) and what appeared to be wheels are the hosts of angels emanating from the Holy Spirit. So that Ezekiel was seeing into the Universe of Speech, these hosts of angels being what is called a chariot or vehicle for what Ezekiel described as a likeness of a throne and a likeness of an image of a man sitting on the throne. These likenesses were actually incredible energies that Ezekiel perceived with his spiritual vision, that had the feeling of a throne and the feeling of an image of a man. The likeness of a throne is the Holy Spirit in the Universe of Mind and the likeness of an image of a man is the Father in Universe of Mind. So here, Ezekiel was seeing through the Universe of Word into the Universe of Mind. The Mind of the Father was 'Speaking' to its creation through Ezekiel.

Bear in mind that in the person of Jesus, all these things existed within in perfect alignment.

Perhaps you can see the difference? Ezekiel was gazing into these spiritual dimensions gleaning something of the Father. Jesus incarnated into flesh, embodying all of these same spiritual dimensions in perfect alignment within himself.

If we are talking about a singular spiritual being appearing to us in our world as Father, we have a problem. There is only one singular being that appeared in our world that could embody the full dimensionality of the Father, and that is Jesus. The only singular angelic like that has appeared in this world capable of a full embodiment of the Father has been the Angel of the Lord, which appeared many times in the Old Testament and to John in Revelation. Jesus in the flesh, and the Angel of YHVH (the Lord) - meaning an angelic being that embodies all dimensionality of the Father in perfect alignment - are the only two singular beings that I know of that have appeared in the world embodying the dimensionality of the Father in perfect alignment.

Stephen's vision at his death, I would think was something like Ezekiel's with the Risen Christ incorporated in some way.

What did Joseph Smith see? I don't know. Given how he described it, it does not sound like a full multidimensional embodiment of the Father nor of the Son. If we want to say it was one of the rays of the seven fold spirit of Christ then we are saying that it was not the Father in fullness, but a limited aspect carrying a limited vision or perspective. Certainly not a full representation of the Ideal. But it is this way for all of us receiving visions. As Paul warned, there are dominions and principalities of evil residing in the heavenly places, and so any spiritual visions can be good, evil or some admixture. When we join with an Apostolic Succession, we learn how to and are given guidance in interpreting our visions, taking what is right and true from them. Without proper understanding of the spiritual realms and personal purification it is easy to be deceived. But yes, such visions are occurring all the time in our present world.

Some who have them end up standing on street corners predicting the end of the world, some consider themselves prophets and try to set up new religions. Most though, or quite a few, humbly hold back asking for help and wait upon the Lord to guide them to others who can help. The Bible gives a picture that we need to emulate. Any calling from God needs to be verified by those called before us. Even Yeshua did not begin his ministry until being baptized by John the Baptist. A remnant of prophets has continued in our world since the days of Christ, and the Holy Spirit will send us to an already existing prophet if we have truly been called through a visionary experience.

I hope this has helped, dear friend.

Shalom!
Sheryl

[_subgenius]

Hi Jo!

You are so right on the limitations of human words, which is why the idea of a singular interpretation of the living scripture is rather foolish to say the least!

not sure this is an agreeable statement, nor is it logical.
The limitations of human words beckons the need for the help of the Holy Spirit, it surely does not beckon the need for additional human words, or as we have admitted...more limitations.

[_jo1952]

Hi Jo!

You are so right on the limitations of human words, which is why the idea of a singular interpretation of the living scripture is rather foolish to say the least!

To answer your questions, we first need to lay additional groundwork. Now various traditions use differing images and words to describe this delineation in scripture, but we are well founded in the Jewish model as described in the written and oral tradition, so I will speak from there.

The seven fold spirit raying actually occurs on five levels or spiritual universes - there are five spiritual universes, unfolding from one another, each with a raying out the seven fold spirit of Christ. So that one raying out unfolds into the next universe, that raying out into the next and so on.

There are many ways to describe the five universes. A simple way that fits into our personal experience is that the five universes represent Divine Will, Mind, Thought, Word, and Action - the physical universe being part of the Universe of Action. This makes sense when we look at how we create - we do so through the Five Universes as well. Same pattern.

Another way of looking at the Universes, which ties into answering your question, is that the Universe of Will is the Universe of Archetypes, Divine Ideals, Potential (This is the beginning of the delineation of God into Father, Holy Spirit and Son), the Universe of Mind is the Universe of the Divine Names or the Divine Attributes expressing the Ideal. The Universe of Thought is the Universe of Archangels, incredible Powers that carry and manifest the Attributes representing the ideal. The Universe of Word is the Universe of Hosts of Angels, or the raying out into a multiplicity of beings carrying these Divine Attributes, the Universe of Action can also be called the Universe of Manifestation, where the ideal becomes manifested, of course at something less that the ideal, but still representing the Archetype. (such as we see with the Tabernacle of Moses. He was shown in vision the Ideal, and had to manifest a lesser version here in the physical.)

Everything in materiality is a lesser manifestation of the Ideal in the Highest Universe, until Jesus. What made Jesus Messiah is that he was a physical manifestation that was directly and perfected joined with all these layers upon layers of creation, in perfect alignment with the Divine Ideal at the Universe of Will. His Body, then, is not just the physical but all the layers and layers of realms and universes with which he was aligned. He was the perfect manifestation of the Father in physicality, being in perfect alignment with the Son in the Universe of Will.

Now a vision of the Father typically occurs such as what Ezekiel saw as recorded in Ezekiel 1. What Ezekiel described in his vision of God, was looking into and through these Universes that I described. For example the four living creatures that he sees are the host of angels emanating from the Father (YHVH) and what appeared to be wheels are the hosts of angels emanating from the Holy Spirit. So that Ezekiel was seeing into the Universe of Word, these hosts of angels being what is called a chariot or vehicle for what Ezekiel described as a likeness of a throne and a likeness of an image of a man sitting on the throne. These likenesses were actually incredible energies that Ezekiel perceived with his spiritual vision, that had the feeling of a throne and the feeling of an image of a man. The likeness of a throne is the Holy Spirit in the Universe of Mind and the likeness of an image of a man is the Father in Universe of Mind. And here, Ezekiel was seeing into the Universe of Mind.

Bear in mind that in the person of Jesus, all these things existed within in perfect alignment.

Perhaps you can see the difference? Ezekiel was gazing into these spiritual dimensions gleaning something of the Father. Jesus incarnated into flesh, embodying all of these same spiritual dimensions in perfect alignment within himself.

If we are talking about a singular spiritual being appearing to us in our world as Father, we have a problem. There is only one singular being that appeared in our world that could embody the full dimensionality of the Father, and that is Jesus. The only singular angelic like being that has appeared in this world has been the Angel of the Lord, which appeared many times in the Old Testament and to John in Revelation. Jesus in the flesh, and The Angel of YHVH (the Lord) - meaning an angelic being that embodies all dimensionality of the Father in perfect alignment - are the only two singular beings that I know of that have appeared in the world embodying the dimensionality of the Father in perfect alignment.

Stephen's vision at his death, I would think was something like Ezekiel's with the Risen Christ incorporated in some way.

What did Joseph Smith see? I don't know. Given how he described it, it does not sound like a full multidimensional embodiment of the Father nor of the Son. If we want to say it was one of the rays of the seven fold spirit of Christ then we are saying that it was not the Father in fullness, but a limited aspect carrying a limited vision or perspective. Certainly not a full representation of the Ideal. But it is this way for all of us receiving visions. When we join with an Apostolic Succession, we learn how to and are given guidance in interpreting our visions, taking what is right and true from them. Without proper understanding of the spiritual realms, it is easy to be deceived. But yes, such visions are occurring all the time in our present world.

Some who have them end up standing on street corners predicting the end of the world, some consider themselves prophets and try to set up new religions. Most though, or quite a few, humbly hold back asking for help and wait upon the Lord to guide them to others who can help. The Bible gives a picture that we need to emulate. Any calling from God needs to be verified by those called before us. Even Yeshua did not begin his ministry until being baptized by John the Baptist. A remnant of prophets has continued in our world since the days of Christ, and the Holy Spirit will send us to an already existing prophet if we have truly been called through a visionary experience.

I hope this has helped, dear friend.

Shalom!
Sheryl

Hi Sheryl,

Yes, this is helping. However, I need to read, study, ponder, and reason, in order to make sure that I have a correct understanding of what you are sharing looks like. At that point I can ask more questions and present what I think you have said; and you can clarify anything I may be interpreting incorrectly, or verify that I have a good grasp of your beliefs. Meanwhile, I think my head may explode.....

Shalom and much love,

jo

[_sheryl]

not sure this is an agreeable statement, nor is it logical.
The limitations of human words beckons the need for the help of the Holy Spirit, it surely does not beckon the need for additional human words, or as we have admitted...more limitations.

Hello subgenius,

God provides for each of us just what we need, and so a singular teaching can have multiple layers of meaning. We call this outer, inner, and secret - or rather helpful and discernible by only a few. If we seek out the Holy Spirit, it will guide us into the highest or most helpful meaning that we can 'hear'.

We are at different places in our spiritual journey and different teachings are needed at each place, hence we find Jesus teaching in parables, but then offering inner and secret interpretations to his disciples.

These layers of meanings appear to be different interpretations to those who can only hear the outer meaning.

I am not the first to say this. It has long been practiced within Judaism - the holy ones contemplating scripture, invoking the Shekinah, to draw out the inner and secret meanings.

Shalom!
Sheryl