Large numbers of members apostatizing - says Marlin K Jensen

[_Drifting]

There have been ups and downs all through out Church history, modern and ancient. But I'm fairly certain you guys will do anything to exaggerate even the slightest negative turn of events.

Us guys? I speak only for myself (a relief to everyone else, I'm sure). I don't think it's an exaggeration. The fact that we are even having this discussion on a message board speaks for itself.

There may have been ups and downs in Church history, but now there is the internet. Unless that goes away (not the way to bet) the decline will continue at an accelerated rate.

One has to ask if Elder Jensen was exaggerating when he said it was an apostasy akin to the Kirtland era apostasy. Bcspace?

[_Runtu]

One has to ask if Elder Jensen was exaggerating when he said it was an apostasy akin to the Kirtland era apostasy. Bcspace?

I didn't know Elder Jensen was one of us apostates. Who knew?

[_Quasimodo]

I've always been amused by the use of the word 'gentile" by Mormons. It means anyone who is not Jewish. The Mormons are gentiles, too.

That's how I was using the word. I'm a gentile who has accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ. Most gentiles have rejected it.

Hmmm, I thought most gentiles (Mormons included) were Christian.

[_Drifting]

One has to ask if Elder Jensen was exaggerating when he said it was an apostasy akin to the Kirtland era apostasy. Bcspace?

I didn't know Elder Jensen was one of us apostates. Who knew?

I am finding myself increasingly warming to Elder Jensen.
He tells the truth even if it's uncomfortable for the Church.
He treats adult members as adults.
And wasn't he the guy who went and faced up to the meeting of gay members where he publicly apologised for what the Church had done?

[_bcspace]

One has to ask if Elder Jensen was exaggerating when he said it was an apostasy akin to the Kirtland era apostasy. Bcspace?

I was specifically speaking of my area. I think generally what's happening Church-wide is we are going after what the Church calls the "swamp", the pool of prospective Elders and causing them to make a decision. Number-wise, they are already on the roles, be technically, most of them are lost already. So internally, the Church sees no effect like "My neighbors are apostatizing!", but externally, anti Mormons rejoice over...nothing. Like I said, I don't see the spouses of strong families falling (unless there is a divorce which is rare), but I do see some of their kids straying.

I can also see some leaders coming face to face with anti Mormonism for the first time and panicking. I've calmed down a few of those as well. Which of course is why I encourage everyone to not avoid it. And of course with every lesson or talk, I do work in some inoculation on various subjects they might encounter.

[_bcspace]

Road sign says:

Heaven this way.
Lecture on Heaven this way.

Which road did the academic take?

LOL

[_Quasimodo]

I can also see some leaders coming face to face with anti Mormonism for the first time and panicking. I've calmed down a few of those as well. Which of course is why I encourage everyone to not avoid it. And of course with every lesson or talk, I do work in some inoculation on various subjects they might encounter.

It's not anti-Mormonism. It's reality vs Mormonism. You don't see it, but very many do. Your inoculations will not help much. It's a losing battle against reliable information.

[_Drifting]

I can also see some leaders coming face to face with anti Mormonism for the first time and panicking. I've calmed down a few of those as well. Which of course is why I encourage everyone to not avoid it. And of course with every lesson or talk, I do work in some inoculation on various subjects they might encounter.

It's not anti-Mormonism. It's reality vs Mormonism. You don't see it, but very many do. Your inoculations will not help much. It's a losing battle against reliable information.

I think you are spot on. Jensen isn't talking about dealing with lies, rumours and anti Mormon points of view. He is talking about the truth that members find out from other sources that he wants the Church to tell them about first.

[_Darth J]

It's not anti-Mormonism. It's reality vs Mormonism.

Actually, the latter is pretty much the working definition of "anti-Mormonism."

[_bcspace]

I think you are spot on. Jensen isn't talking about dealing with lies, rumours and anti Mormon points of view. He is talking about the truth that members find out from other sources that he wants the Church to tell them about first.

But there are lies, rumors, and innuendo surround those facts and that is why anti Mormonism is not found in reality in any way shape or form and of course why we need to bring those subject up more often and how to deal with them.

Interesting though how MKJ treats the official publications as doctrine. Well, not really interesting to me, but should be interesting to some......