Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

The upper-crust forum for scholarly, polite, and respectful discussions only. Heavily moderated. Rated G.
Post Reply
_Tobin
_Emeritus
Posts: 8417
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:01 pm

Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Tobin »

And again, they have brought swords, the hilts thereof have perished, and the blades thereof were cankered with rust (Mosiah 8:11)
Yes, it sounds like they were doing quite well at the time. I'm sure they just stopped corroding and are sitting around for someone to discover.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Drifting »

Tobin wrote:
And again, they have brought swords, the hilts thereof have perished, and the blades thereof were cankered with rust (Mosiah 8:11)
Yes, it sounds like they were doing quite well at the time. I'm sure they just stopped corroding and are sitting around for someone to discover.


How does wood and obsidian become cankered with rust?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_SteelHead
_Emeritus
Posts: 8261
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 1:40 am

Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _SteelHead »

The sword blades were described as being cankered with rust. Brass, bronze and copper do not rust, they tarnish and patina, Ergo the blades were iron or steel and subject to rust. The breastplate was brass. Do some research on the survivability of brass in humid environs.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
_Tobin
_Emeritus
Posts: 8417
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:01 pm

Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Tobin »

SteelHead wrote:The sword blades were described as being cankered with rust. Brass, bronze and copper do not rust, they tarnish and patina, Ergo the blades were iron or steel and subject to rust. The breastplate was brass. Do some research on the survivability of brass in humid environs.
We are talking about steel here. Please try to stay on topic. There is no discussion about brass, bronze, or copper. The text in Mosiah and the MILLIONS? (we really don't know the number) dead have to do with the Jaredites and their steel swords. Apparently, according to the Book of Mormon, they were pretty well gone when the Nephites discovered the remains. But, I'm sure our science will invent a time machine soon and we can go back and rescue them.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Drifting »

Tobin wrote:
SteelHead wrote:The sword blades were described as being cankered with rust. Brass, bronze and copper do not rust, they tarnish and patina, Ergo the blades were iron or steel and subject to rust. The breastplate was brass. Do some research on the survivability of brass in humid environs.
We are talking about steel here. Please try to stay on topic. There is no discussion about brass, bronze, or copper. The text in Mosiah and the MILLIONS? (we really don't know the number) dead have to do with the Jaredites and their steel swords. Apparently, according to the Book of Mormon, they were pretty well gone when the Nephites discovered the remains. But, I'm sure our science will invent a time machine soon and we can go back and rescue them.


You introduced wood and obsidian, how is that different to talking about brass etc?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Tobin
_Emeritus
Posts: 8417
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:01 pm

Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Tobin »

Drifting wrote:How does wood and obsidian become cankered with rust?
It doesn't. The Jaredites had iron weapons.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_Tobin
_Emeritus
Posts: 8417
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:01 pm

Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Tobin »

Drifting wrote:The words 'wood' and 'obsidian' occur how often in the Book of Mormon in relation to weaponry?
Read Alma 24:12-15. The are referring to weapons made of wood.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_Tobin
_Emeritus
Posts: 8417
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:01 pm

Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Tobin »

Drifting wrote:You introduced wood and obsidian, how is that different to talking about brass etc?
Because the archeological evidence shows that is what was used. Also, Alma refers to wooden weapons as well.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_SteelHead
_Emeritus
Posts: 8261
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 1:40 am

Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _SteelHead »

Tobin wrote:
Drifting wrote:How does wood and obsidian become cankered with rust?
It doesn't. The Jaredites had iron weapons.


They also had a profusion of breastplates made of brass.

Now where did they all disappear to?

Oh ya, the disintegrator ray. pew! Pew! Pew!
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

Post by _Drifting »

Tobin wrote:
Drifting wrote:You introduced wood and obsidian, how is that different to talking about brass etc?
Because the archeological evidence shows that is what was used. Also, Alma refers to wooden weapons as well.


 
12 Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren.

 13 Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords aagain they can no more be bwashed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins.

 14 And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish; yea, and he has made these things known unto us beforehand, because he loveth our asouls as well as he loveth our children; therefore, in his mercy he doth visit us by his angels, that the bplan of salvation might be made known unto us as well as unto future generations.


Can't see wood mentioned in the scripture you referenced, can you?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Post Reply