The LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church!

[_Themis]

It is your worldview which drives you to believe some and not others.

My world view was very LDS. Many LDS with their LDS world views were still able to change their views on a global flood and young earth. To be able to change a view that may have been in-conflict with the available evdience shows a more open mind.

Lay your worldview out before you and really look at it. You will find it is just as faith based as mine.

I have, and it shows I need a fraction of the faith you do. This is because there is so much evidence available, and anyone can check it out. They can test it over and over again to see what the results will be. I no longer need to believe anything as you do, so I have a much better ability to change my views in light of new information. Also I still notice a lot of faith is about the existence of God, instead of faith in God.

Have you seen a magnetic field? You may have seen the effects of a magnetic field. Then you believe. Have you seen faith in Christ? No but you have seen people who are different because of their faith. Yet you reject the possibility that what causes a change in a person is real just like a magnetic field is real.

They are two different things. One is a physical property that can be shown to everyone, and tested over and over again to show how reliable it is. The other is very subjective beliefs. People become different with other beliefs and faiths. Scientology, Buddhism, Wicca, Islam, Hinduism, etc.

[_SteelHead]

The selfsame Tobin that says Brigham Young was off his nut for teaching personal revelation now says the church is all about personal revelation.

[_jo1952]

Just to add to my last comment....

Man has agency and is thus under God's plan promised equal opportunity.
However, he does not promise equal outcomes.

Likewise, every man has equal opportunity within his sphere to know and find truth, but none of them/us are promised that we will find the fullness of truth, i.e. the "True Church".

Others that don't find the Church are not and cannot be a part of the "True Church".

Hello Ldsfaqs:

"Church" does not equal "Heaven". It has been revealed to me that the degree of Heaven a person reaches is related to their current incarnation. If they reach the Terrestrial Heaven, it is the result of what they accomplished by the end of their current incarnation. It is NOT the end of their eternal progression. Through their next incarnation they can get further by having more Truth revealed to them until such incarnation and point where they will evolve into being One with Father and Christ. It depends upon the spirit - some are more willing to do Father's will than others. Until they are in complete alignment with Father's will (which takes place as they are able to receive more and more of All Truth), they cannot enter His presence again. Eventually, however, I believe all of His children will be able to return to His presence. I even extend this belief to Lucifer and his followers - though it may take many eternities (and Joseph DID speak of more than one) for this to be accomplished.

That would mean an equal outcome, and there is simply no such thing that exists with fallible human beings and life.

This is why we go through as many incarnations as is necessary.

Satan's plan, as liberalism and political correctness is to force equal outcomes.
Such is contrary to God, for the First Law of Heaven is Obedience according to free will and choice.

Lucifer's plan (I believe that "satan" is a title) was to take away free agency. He also wanted to take the credit and glory for his plan which would have usurped Father's glory.

God's purpose for the Plan of Salvation is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. I do not think His plan will be frustrated by any being.

Blessings,

jo

[_jo1952]

SteelHead,

You really don't understand Mormonism very well. Mormonism is all about personal revelation and coming to an understanding of the gospel from the Lord directly. Those that don't do that are not based on this "rock" of revelation and speaking with the Lord. And when the storms come they are washed away because they do not know the gospel and the Lord.

As far as Franktalk, Jo, ldsfaqs and all other Mormon posters on this forum that freely embrace the Lord and seek answers from him by speaking with him, I endorse that and reflects my own view of the gospel and how best to be Mormon. In many ways, the "official" Mormon doctrine you attack doesn't exist (or isn't a true representation of the gospel). Those that are really interested in the truth seek the answers from the Lord and that is why they are the "true" followers of God.

+ 1

[_RockSlider]

Man has agency and is thus under God's plan promised equal opportunity.
However, he does not promise equal outcomes.

Isn't that the God's honest truth! Like Alvin Dryer once pointed out, those during their first estate that "chose poorly" ended up in Ethiopia and/or black.

[_jo1952]

Isn't that the God's honest truth! Like Alvin Dryer once pointed out, those during their first estate that "chose poorly" ended up in Ethiopia and/or black.

Hello RockSlider!

You may not have intended to go there, but this is just another part of going through many incarnations. We get to experience everything that is necessary for us to progress and to learn; albeit Alvin Dryer didn't have his interpretation of what he was seeing completely accurate. The Truth surrounding multiple incarnations is more complicated. However, once it is understood, many things which trouble people especially about the Old Testament, will no longer be a concern. Also, many parts of what might first have appeared as inconsistencies or inexplanable teachings, will become seamlessly clear and merciful with the rest of scripture.

Blessings,

jo

[_RockSlider]

albeit Alvin Dryer didn't have his interpretation of what he was seeing completely accurate.

He was a member of the First Pres. You know, those guys that speak with the Lord, first hand all the time. And your telling me that he did not quite understand?

[_Drifting]

Here's the view from a recent Prophet...

Well, it's either true or false. If it's false, we're engaged in a great fraud. If it's true, it's the most important thing in the world. Now, that's the whole picture. It is either right or wrong, true or false, fraudulent or true. And that's exactly where we stand, with a conviction in our hearts that it is true: that Joseph went into the [Sacred] Grove; that he saw the Father and the Son; that he talked with them; that Moroni came; that the Book of Mormon was translated from the plates; that the priesthood was restored by those who held it anciently. That's our claim. That's where we stand, and that's where we fall, if we fall. But we don't. We just stand secure in that faith.

So.
If Mormonism isn't the one true religion...then it's completely fraudulent.

Jo, what religion are you an adherent of, if any?

[_RockSlider]

Jo, what religion are you an adherent of, if any?

Jo do you consider yourself a Mystic Mormon? This is something that I sought after and considered myself once upon a time. Are you active in the church, but feel the FP/q12 have somewhat fallen? Do you remain active in temple attendance?

[_SteelHead]

[I]t is contrary to the economy of God for any member of the Church, or any one, to receive instruction for those in authority, higher than themselves . . . if any person have a vision or a visitation from a heavenly messenger, it must be for his own benefit and instruction; for the fundamental principles, government, and doctrine of the Church are vested in the keys of the kingdom. B.H. Roberts, History of the Church 1:338

Are Jo, Frank, faqs, or Tobin in a position of authority, whereby they are authorized to teach as revealed truths their personal revelations?