What the city of bountiful artifacts would look like

[_tapirrider]

I'm here to promote my opinion on where the Book of Mormon took place nothing else.

And in doing so you are contributing to a division among the members of the church. Those who think it took place in Mesoamerica are wrong in your opinion, you are wrong in their opinion. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

And in promoting your opinion, you claim that the church leaders were wrong about the Michigan relics, you claim that all of the credible scholars including an LDS apostle scientist who concluded those relics are fake are wrong in their conclusions, you claim that science is wrong, that archaeologists are wrong, in essence, every source that can provide truth is wrong and your opinion is the correct one. David McKane, if that is what it takes to make the Book of Mormon real for yourself concerning where it happened, something is wrong.

You have not done deep research. You do not do honest research. You cherry pick so of course nothing phases you. Its easy when you don't face truth and reality.

[_bomgeography]

I'm here to promote my opinion on where the Book of Mormon took place nothing else.

And in doing so you are contributing to a division among the members of the church. Those who think it took place in Mesoamerica are wrong in your opinion, you are wrong in their opinion. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

And in promoting your opinion, you claim that the church leaders were wrong about the Michigan relics, you claim that all of the credible scholars including an LDS apostle scientist who concluded those relics are fake are wrong in their conclusions, you claim that science is wrong, that archaeologists are wrong, in essence, every source that can provide truth is wrong and your opinion is the correct one. David McKane, if that is what it takes to make the Book of Mormon real for yourself concerning where it happened, something is wrong.

You have not done deep research. You do not do honest research. You cherry pick so of course nothing phases you. Its easy when you don't face truth and reality.

Your wrong tapir you can't distinguish between temporal and spiritual. Tbms are not divided about the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon.

90% don't even care where the Book of Mormon ACTUALLY took place.

It's there to help them through the there mortal existence to return to our Heavenly Father. And for millions of people it does just that. Tapir anybody wanting physical proof positive evidence of God or the Book of Mormon will leave the church.

[_tapirrider]

I'm here to promote my opinion on where the Book of Mormon took place nothing else.

And in doing so you are contributing to a division among the members of the church. Those who think it took place in Mesoamerica are wrong in your opinion, you are wrong in their opinion. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

And in promoting your opinion, you claim that the church leaders were wrong about the Michigan relics, you claim that all of the credible scholars including an LDS apostle scientist who concluded those relics are fake are wrong in their conclusions, you claim that science is wrong, that archaeologists are wrong, in essence, every source that can provide truth is wrong and your opinion is the correct one. David McKane, if that is what it takes to make the Book of Mormon real for yourself concerning where it happened, something is wrong.

You have not done deep research. You do not do honest research. You cherry pick so of course nothing phases you. Its easy when you don't face truth and reality.

Your wrong tapir you can't distinguish between temporal and spiritual. Tbms are not divided about the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon.

90% don't even care where the Book of Mormon ACTUALLY took place.

It's there to help them through the there mortal existence to return to our Heavenly Father. And for millions of people it does just that. Tapir anybody wanting physical proof positive evidence of God or the Book of Mormon will leave the church.

David McKane, I distinguish between spiritual and what you call temporal very well, just as I distinguish between fantasy and reality. which is something you might benefit from improving your skills on.

LDS members are in fact divided over where the stories took place. They are divided over what they believe is true. The only agreement among all is that the Book of Mormon is true. But the variance between the different geography promoters betrays the Book of Mormon. They can't all be right about what they believe. You are convinced that you are right, even to the point that you declare that the church was wrong. Like I said, something is wrong.

I didn't need physical proof or evidence, Moroni's promise was always enough for me. I was just one of those that you call 90% who for the longest time didn't even realize that members were divided. My realization that the church is not true was not based on or influenced by where the Book of Mormon stories allegedly occurred.

I suspect that you do have some deep need to make the Book of Mormon real. You seem obsessed with where you think it happened. It makes me suspect that Moroni's promise isn't enough for you.

[_Lemmie]

The problem I see is that your view is a prophet should and needs to be perfect in all aspects of life.

Then you missed my point entirely as I was not making any statements at all about how a prophet should be

Let me re-state. I was talking about you and only you when I said you put "...illogical, uneducated and very poorly thought-out pseudo-scientific random bits of nonsense out in front of readers."

I have no opinion about you or your leaders' religious leanings other than to note that you are so far out there in using fraudulent and illogical pseudo-science that you are even going against what your leaders believe, to the extent that by your church's standards, you would qualify as an apostate.

Tapir anybody wanting physical proof positive evidence of God or the Book of Mormon will leave the church.

That's quite telling. Why are you looking for evidence then? You've left the church?

[_Quasimodo]

Your wrong tapir you can't distinguish between temporal and spiritual. Tbms are not divided about the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon.

90% don't even care where the Book of Mormon ACTUALLY took place.

It's there to help them through the there mortal existence to return to our Heavenly Father. And for millions of people it does just that. Tapir anybody wanting physical proof positive evidence of God or the Book of Mormon will leave the church.

I've known for a while that the TBM's credo is "I don't care if it's true! It's what I believe".

That will get you through the day, but it will not solve some very serious, long term belief problems. The fact that you post here in hopes of convincing someone (anyone) of your postulations tells me that you have some serious doubts about your own beliefs and are trying very hard to push them back with your untenable theories.

From reading many of the posters here, it seems that the road down apology often leads to apostasy (if you are intellectually honest).

[_tapirrider]

I have the most realistic model. Meso American apologist can't punch holes in it.

No you don't. Your model is not real. Punch holes in it? It is already a failure and so full of holes there is no place to punch. But don't feel bad, the Mesoamerican model isn't real either.

I think church leaders should study the evidence posted.

They did, before you were even born and 13 years ago declared that the Michigan relics in their possession are fake. Recently the church also concluded that DNA cannot be used to affirm the Book of Mormon.

"arguments that some defenders of the Book of Mormon make based on DNA studies are also speculative. In short, DNA studies cannot be used decisively to either affirm or reject the historical authenticity of the Book of Mormon."

David McKane, you think the church made a mistake with the Michigan relics but your claims are not even in agreement with the church. Something is wrong.

[_Maksutov]

I WANT TO BELIEVE

[_Themis]

Tbms are not divided about the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon.

Well actually they are, but you won't see it at church. You have those who think it took place in NE North America and those who think it took place in Meso-America. You have had arguments with them. There are a few more who think it is inspired fiction.

90% don't even care where the Book of Mormon ACTUALLY took place.

Many don't care because they are content with life and, people in these situations, tend to avoid things that might tip that balance. They are not interested in truth, but maintaining their situation and wanting what they hope is true to be true.

Tapir anybody wanting physical proof positive evidence of God or the Book of Mormon will leave the church.

You should reword this. Your endeavors show you want proof positive that God exists and the Book of Mormon is really about a real people. It should read that people who demand to know or they will sop believing will stop believing. It's more accurate but stating the obvious. Almost every member, yourself included, wants proof positive of these kind of things. It's just that you wont stop believing if you don't get them, and for many, even if you get proof positive the Book of Mormon is not true. Even when I realized the spiritual experience was not a reliable way to know anything is true, I didn't stop believing LDS truth claims. I needed sufficient real evidence that they were not true to stop believing they were true.

This is the real difference between you and those who stop believing over the evidence. Your desire to have what you believe be true is higher then your desire to know the truth. Even if it means your beliefs are wrong. This is how it works for any belief we have in life, religious or not. It all depends on how much we want the truth and how much we want what we believe to be the truth.

[_Themis]

I WANT TO BELIEVE

LOL And this is why most don't believe in Big Foot. Most have no desire to really believe so they can clearly see the evidence does not support it if they look at the claim. But we see some who desires are very high to want BF to exist so cannot see clearly the evidence is against it and now start to see evidence or interpret certain evidences as really supporting BF's existence in the same way bomgeography is doing with the Book of Mormon.

Now Aliens is very different. There is so much evidence they exist. I've seen ancient aliens on TV. There is no way they could make this stuff up.

[_Maksutov]

I WANT TO BELIEVE

LOL And this is why most don't believe in Big Foot. Most have no desire to really believe so they can clearly see the evidence does not support it if they look at the claim. But we see some who desires are very high to want BF to exist so cannot see clearly the evidence is against it and now start to see evidence or interpret certain evidences as really supporting BF's existence in the same way bomgeography is doing with the Book of Mormon.

Now Aliens is very different. There is so much evidence they exist. I've seen ancient aliens on TV. There is no way they could make this stuff up.

Absolutely. And if you look closely over the Madonna's shoulder you'll see the three Nephites in silhouette.