Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

[_Gunnar]

Nothing would cause me to question my own sanity more than a strong "prompting or revelation from God" (or at least question the real source of the prompting) to kill someone in cold blood like (for example) Nephi killed Laban. I would rather God killed me than obey such a prompting or revelation.

If God took you in the spirit to the future where you saw a person kill your family and then God said I place this person in your hand. On your return would you kill that person even though they had not done anything yet?

I am not so sure we can make blanket statements about our dealings with God.

Are you saying that Laban was innocent blood? If you oppose the will of God is that enough reason for God who knows the future to have you killed? I mean if His will and plan are overturned by you does God have justification to remove the obstacle?

Read carefully the conversation between Christ and Abraham about the destruction of Sodom.

I still stand by the position that if God wants someone removed by killing him, he has both the capacity (if he is truly God) and the obligation to do it himself. As I said in a previous post, for God to command any of us mortals to kill for him would set an extremely stupid and dangerous precedent that any fanatical, religious charlatan or nutcase could later use to justify false claims of divine authorization for killing someone who opposes them.

Besides that, there isn't any credible justification for concluding that Laban was anything more than a fictional character.

[Guest]

If God took you in the spirit to the future where you saw a person kill your family and then God said I place this person in your hand. On your return would you kill that person even though they had not done anything yet

Really? Seriously? When has God ever done anything like that? Do you seriously think it is at all likely that he ever would? If I ever experienced anything like that, I would have to conclude that I was having some kind of hallucination or mental breakdown!

Don't forget that there is a well established and very strong correlation between mental illness and strong religiousity, especially when visions of Divine apparitions and manifestations are involved.

[_subgenius]

no, about a guy who admittedly has no basis for morality beyond hedonism.

I think you are lying yet again, so CFR.

see all posts, this forum, authored by Drifting.

what does what mean?
If God instructs whatever then you are best to follow...pretty simple.

Which supports that you are the one who might end up killing the innocent.

not in reasonable-land or logic-village.

Funny how people who post like yours seem to have so much issue against following God but they have little resistance against follow Satan.

I don't follow either, because I at least realize they are both fictional. At least the christian versions.

annnnnnd scene!
So, the obvious absence of a noble cause concludes your presence here is one motivated by bitterness and/or selfish desires...congratulations.


by the way, christian versions? versions of what? are you suggesting that there is some "objective" reality that is merely subjectively described due to various limitations of man being influenced by his environment...thus rendering his descriptions as being an inevitable attempt at an inevitable reality? Are you suggesting that there is indeed "something" there, but have only the limited and often contradictory accounts of what that may be there as evidence? yet you know it to be true?
or are you just psychologically masturbatory and the only satisfaction you can derive is by trolling religious forums exclaiming how you have the real solution as opposed to thousands of years of millions of peoples recorded traditions and experiences?

[_subgenius]

I still stand by the position that if God wants someone removed by killing him, he has both the capacity (if he is truly God) and the obligation to do it himself.

Certainly He has the capacity...but the obligation? I think you misunderstand how the scriptures and contemplative prayer reveal God's nature. But certainly you have support for such a position...or does it just "seem" right?

As I said in a previous post, for God to command any of us mortals to kill for him would set an extremely stupid and dangerous precedent that any fanatical, religious charlatan or nutcase could later use to justify false claims of divine authorization for killing someone who opposes them.

so, awkward, but obviously you have not read the Bible nor many history books?

Besides that, there isn't any credible justification for concluding that Laban was anything more than a fictional character.

and currently there is no credible evidence that you are anything more than a bot.
Funny how people, who post things like you posted here, seem to require credible justification only when some notion is contrary to their own predisposition.
Otherwise they are quite comfortable at taking things at "face value"...because they just "know" its reliable, they just "know" it is true...yet they have no real "credible justification" beyond that.

[_Gunnar]

Thanks, subgenius, for providing yet another couple of examples of the incoherent posts Mktavish was talking about!

so, awkward, but obviously you have not read the Bible nor many history books?

On the contrary, it is precisely because I have read the Bible and many history books that I have come to those conclusions. I agree with Dan Barker (an ex evangelist) that nothing will turn one into an atheist faster than reading the Bible literally from cover to cover.

[Guest]

Funny how people, who post things like you posted here, seem to require credible justification only when some notion is contrary to their own predisposition.

Please end this malarkey about us coming to these conclusions only because of our own "predisposition." As is the case with myself, Drifting, Themis and many others, including Dr. Shades himself, my original predisposition was to believe and accept the LDS doctrinal claims, hook, line and sinker. It was only after years of learning the facts of science, history, contradictions, fallacies and failed prophecies in the Bible, becoming acquainted with the lies told by Joseph Smith and his successors, etc. that we (reluctantly, in most, if not all, cases) were driven to the conclusion that the LDS Church is not at all what it claims to be! When you accuse us of only believing what we are predisposed to believe, you are projecting, because that is what you have inadvertently revealed numerous times by your own posts that you do. Believe it or not!

[_Drifting]

Funny how people, who post things like you posted here, seem to require credible justification only when some notion is contrary to their own predisposition.

Please end this malarkey about us coming to these conclusions only because of our own "predisposition." As is the case with myself, Drifting, Themis and many others, including Dr. Shades himself, my original disposition was to believe and accept the LDS doctrinal claims, hook, line and sinker. It was only after years of learning the facts of science, history, contradictions, fallacies and failed prophecies in the Bible, becoming acquainted with the lies told by Joseph Smith and his successors, etc. that we (reluctantly, in most cases) were driven to the conclusion that the LDS Church is not at all what it claims to be! When you accuse us of only believing what we are predisposed to believe, you are projecting, because that is what you have inadvertently revealed numerous times by your own posts that you do. Believe it or not!

Actually, the other aspect that convinced me the Church isn't what it claims to be is that what it teaches as doctrine flip flops and is amended and reversed.
If a religion supposedly run by God cannot get its story straight on wether Blacks are banned or not, multiple wives are a requirement or a sin, Temple oaths require a commitment to kill yourself or not etc. then it is a clear indication that God, should He exist is not a sitting board member.

Couple that with a 'do as we say not as we do' leadership style, it all adds up to be the kind of organisation whose total disregard for what is right and proper would not be tolerated in any other walk of life.

What would the shareholders of a corporation do to a board which behaved in the way the Church leadership behaves?

[_Gunnar]

Actually, the other aspect that convinced me the Church isn't what it claims to be is that what it teaches as doctrine flip flops and is amended and reversed.
If a religion supposedly run by God cannot get its story straight on wether Blacks are banned or not, multiple wives are a requirement or a sin, Temple oaths require a commitment to kill yourself or not etc. then it is a clear indication that God, should He exist is not a sitting board member.

Couple that with a 'do as we say not as we do' leadership style, it all adds up to be the kind of organisation whose total disregard for what is right and proper would not be tolerated in any other walk of life.

What would the shareholders of a corporation do to a board which behaved in the way the Church leadership behaves?

Yes! That too!

[_Franktalk]

Really? Seriously? When has God ever done anything like that? Do you seriously think it is at all likely that he ever would? If I ever experienced anything like that, I would have to conclude that I was having some kind of hallucination or mental breakdown!

Don't forget that there is a well established and very strong correlation between mental illness and strong religiousity, especially when visions of Divine apparitions and manifestations are involved.

For some reason the intervention by God into the affairs of man offends you. That feeling is shared by many. I have had visions and had manifestations but have never been told to slaughter anyone. I am also not mentally ill. In fact my sense of reality is much better than the man on the street. But my world view is not a common one. I live in this world yet seek another. But that seeking does not stop me from learning all I can in this life of flesh.

Thank you for sharing your views on these matters.

[_Franktalk]

..... and failed prophecies in the Bible,.......

If you could list them I would appreciate it.