The LDS members and the Kingdom of God

[_gdemetz]

Albion, that IS the Christian and Biblical position! Let me know specifically if you think something was wrong with my post!

[_Franktalk]

We are told to be perfect. There are two in the Bible that appear to be perfect. Job is described as perfect and it was said that he did not sin with his lips. This implies that some thoughts occurred that may have been sinful. With Christ we see the example of the perfect life. But here Christ has an advantage in that He knows of His relationship with Father from birth and that strong bond allows Him to do the will of His Father. Our life in the flesh is different. We struggle to obtain the spiritual walk all of our life. And in the end can we indeed do the will of the Father? Can forgiveness wipe out all of the times we stumble and sin? I believe Christ will do as He has said. Just as Father trusted Jesus and was well pleased I too must trust Jesus and in the end will be well pleased. But if we make progress and in the end walk with God is that enough? Do we need a full and perfect life? Just what does God intend to do with our spirits so we can progress, even after death? Is one moment of clarity enough to be judged worthy? These thoughts don't trouble me they just make me curious.

[_Franktalk]

If one starts to imagine a Kingdom of God just what does that do to this reality as defined by science. If we can imagine a place that science can't measure does that start to weaken the hold that the world has on us? I would say it does. When we start to think of this place and other places we start to lower our view of the world. The world loses its unique role and just becomes a place among many. So is this the starting point for us to cast off the world? And just what does that mean to cast off the world? To me it is simple. It just means that I embrace the idea that this physical creation is but one of many places and this world does not hold me. It is I that cut the binding nature of life in the flesh. This creates the sense of freedom that comes with embracing a spiritual heaven separate from this temporal plane. I believe that this freedom of thought is what the Holy Ghost uses to communicate with us. For those who do not possess this freedom of thought then there is no pathway for the Holy Spirit to communicate with us. This is why the natural man can not have the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. So for me a leap of faith is nothing more than an expansion of thought about spiritual realms. But if we allow the restrictive boundaries of thought as defined by science to be our guide then we stay the natural man.

[_LittleNipper]

I have read it. You are misinterpreting the meaning, as usual And you still haven't addressed my questions, and apparently can't put two and two together. Of course, salvation could not be possible without Christ since we all have sinned, however, we still must keep the commandments! Why do you think Christ said that?! Was He lying, or telling us something that we really didn't need to do?! James clearly states that faith without works is dead!!! If you think that a person can profess with his mouth only and be a liar and an adulterer, then you are very ignorant, and you make Christ's words void as well as the holy scriptures! What does the Book of Revelation say will happen to ALL liars and adulterers, etc.?! It doesn't say that they will be exempt since they made a profession of faith! How dumb, you need to learn to put two and two together!

Do you keep all the commandments?

[_gdemetz]

Yes, I keep all the commandments just as the young rich man, but am I perfect, no, as is obvious to all who are familiar with me here, and that is where the grace of Christ is needed in my life for my salvation.

[_Franktalk]

So how do we start on that path to spirituality? The first thing you must do is accept that the creation is not all there is. This comes with a whole list of things now possible. It makes God possible and in fact required since the creation would be a subset to the much larger spiritual realm. God being spiritual pretty much defines what spiritual means. It means a power and knowledge outside of this physical world. It means that intellect is not bound by the physical brain and many things we perceive around us are in fact manifestations of the power of the spiritual world. Like the spirits found in man and in all manner of beasts. If you accept that the spirit world exist then you start to see others as spirit creatures housed in a physical frame. Once you embrace this as reality then the ideas of man and the assumptions of science take on a different perspective. You start to see the boundary that man has placed around the creation as artificial and arbitrary. You see the boundary as constructed by man to serve man in this creation. Many discoveries in the creation have lead to a better control of our existence in the physical plane and these can be very powerful ideas. These give a sense that the study of the creation is the ultimate truth and to go beyond that barrier is not required. So now you have to make a choice. Do I embrace the creation only and reject the spiritual realm. Or do I make that leap of faith that there is more and man does not have the answers. If you sit in the world and do not make that leap of faith then you are of the world. You can ask all day long for the Spirit to confirm to you the existence of God but it will not come. The natural man does receive those things which come from the spirit. If you have not opened up the pathways to your own spirit then the Holy Ghost has nothing to talk to so you can receive your confirmation. The Kingdom is there for all if you wish it. But the Kingdom is spiritual in nature so to see it requires spiritual eyes. Your earthly eyes will only see the physical plane. If you embrace the power of the spiritual realm then everything here came into being because of spiritual power. Our past was driven by the powers of the spiritual realm. Supernatural events are common and all around us if we look at the world through spiritual eyes. But if you look around with earthly eyes then all you see is the physical plane and you are bound by the rules and ideas of the physical plane.

[_Franktalk]

When we dream just what is happening? Are we not making some alternate reality for us to work out some kind of issue? We wake and say how real our dream was. I wonder if when we die and our spirit wakes from this physical plane and that it is in some way similar to our dream state. A way more complex and detailed state in which we actually interact with others and spend a lifetime in that state. I think this physical universe is real but that does not mean it can not be a layer of many realities. Just how many layers are on this path we are on? In my acceptance of the Kingdom of God I have to accept things unseen and just hoped for.

[_Drifting]

When we dream just what is happening? Are we not making some alternate reality for us to work out some kind of issue? We wake and say how real our dream was. I wonder if when we die and our spirit wakes from this physical plane and that it is in some way similar to our dream state. A way more complex and detailed state in which we actually interact with others and spend a lifetime in that state. I think this physical universe is real but that does not mean it can not be a layer of many realities. Just how many layers are on this path we are on? In my acceptance of the Kingdom of God I have to accept things unseen and just hoped for.

You've seen "The Matrix" right?

[_Franktalk]

You've seen "The Matrix" right?

There are many ideas which manifest in various ways in the stories of man. Some of these stories are in support of truth and some try and tear down truth. It is hard for us to wade through all of this and discover the real gems. Then of course there are times when we are not searching for truth and looking instead for just an entertaining story.

[_Franktalk]

Is there a perfect way to interpret scripture? If we know for sure the true meaning of the Word just what does that do for us? I mean does a doorway open to heaven and we take the next bus? I don't think we are to have a perfect understanding. I think the conflict among believing Christians as to the message in scripture tells us something. It tells us that on this earth we don't have a guide book. I think we have a guide but no guide book. So by faith we believe and by the spirit we are guided. I think we accept those things which are a mystery and accept that many things will not be filled in in our life in the flesh. So just what are we to know and just what do we do to make the best of this situation? To start with we believe by faith (not evidence) that there is a God. And we embrace the top two commandments. Love your God and love each other. But what happens to us if we actually embrace the top two commandments? Can we love each other if we wallow in the flesh? I don't think we can love all mankind if we embrace the cesspool of lusts and evil. We must somehow divert ourselves from this world so we can actually do the commandments of God. I think we must see each other as spirits and not the surface behavior that we project. If we achieve this in love are we not already in the Kingdom? Yes we may still be in the flesh and tempted by the world but can it actually pull us back? Is there a place that we can go in belief and in works that sets us up on the glide path to the kingdom?