What's Your Take on Near Death Experiences?

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_gramps
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Post by _gramps »

Fortigurn wrote:
gramps wrote:Also, I really enjoyed Howard Marks' first book, Mr. Nice, one of your fellow Britishmen, I believe.


I'm actually Australian, but it doesn't matter.

Peace (however you can get it)!


Thanks, same to you. I must say I've found this a refreshing exchange.


I am truly sorry for offending you. But, if I have, you are the sinner for being offended! LOL.

Likewise, to be sure.
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
Adrian Beverland
_Fortigurn
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Post by _Fortigurn »

gramps wrote:I am truly sorry for offending you. But, if I have, you are the sinner for being offended! LOL.

Likewise, to be sure.


It's ok, I wasn't offended. It takes a lot more than that. Over here I get taken for an American.
Lazy research debunked: bcspace x 4 | maklelan x 3 | Coggins7 x 5 (by Mr. Coffee x5) | grampa75 x 1 | whyme x 2 | rcrocket x 2 | Kerry Shirts x 1 | Enuma Elish x 1|
_gramps
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Post by _gramps »

Fortigurn wrote:
gramps wrote:I am truly sorry for offending you. But, if I have, you are the sinner for being offended! LOL.

Likewise, to be sure.


It's ok, I wasn't offended. It takes a lot more than that. Over here I get taken for an American.


Ouch! Now, that you ought to take offense at. LOL
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
Adrian Beverland
_Fortigurn
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Post by _Fortigurn »

gramps wrote:Ouch! Now, that you ought to take offense at. LOL


I wasn't going to say it. The poor Americans have enough problems over here. Anyway, they're so common that over here 'foreigner' and 'American' are used almost synonymously.
Lazy research debunked: bcspace x 4 | maklelan x 3 | Coggins7 x 5 (by Mr. Coffee x5) | grampa75 x 1 | whyme x 2 | rcrocket x 2 | Kerry Shirts x 1 | Enuma Elish x 1|
_haleray
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Post by _haleray »

I don't know if anyone else has said this, but I'll say it.
When some people that have experienced a NDE are told that, some pilots experience something similar. They say that they don’t know if it was real or not but their lives will never be the same again.
In the scriptures, some of the prophets have mentioned that they didn’t know if what they were seeing was a vision or a dream.
Just something, to think about, that’s all.
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

haleray wrote:I don't know if anyone else has said this, but I'll say it.
When some people that have experienced a NDE are told that, some pilots experience something similar. They say that they don’t know if it was real or not but their lives will never be the same again.
In the scriptures, some of the prophets have mentioned that they didn’t know if what they were seeing was a vision or a dream.
Just something, to think about, that’s all.


This article may be of help: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers06.html

Loss-of-consciousness episodes of all types appear to have an explainable physiologic basis. They are, therefore, open for scientific investigation. At least the loss of consciousness aspect of the NDE, therefore, has a potentially explainable and experimentally explorable basis. It would be odd if the symptoms associated with loss and recovery of consciousness were not part of the NDE. The fact that many of the NDE symptoms are very similar to those resulting from loss and recovery of consciousness suggests that individuals who report their NDEs have provided accurate symptom descriptions. This includes those symptoms beyond the scope of G-LOC experimentation, which are unique to the NDE.


Pilots don't usually report long-term life-changing experiences. From The Lancet one theory:

Another theory holds that NDE might be a changing state of consciousness (transcendence), in which identity, cognition, and emotion function independently from the unconscious body, but retain the possibility of non-sensory perception.7,8,22,28,31


http://profezie3m.altervista.org/archiv ... et_NDE.htm

The difference between NDEs and OBEs:

And yet, neurophysiological processes must play some part in NDE. Similar experiences can be induced through electrical stimulation of the temporal lobe (and hence of the hippocampus) during neurosurgery for epilepsy,23 with high carbon dioxide levels (hypercarbia),24 and in decreased cerebral perfusion resulting in local cerebral hypoxia as in rapid acceleration during training of fighter pilots,25 or as in hyperventilation followed by valsalva manoeuvre.4 Ketamine-induced experiences resulting from blockage of the NMDA receptor,26 and the role of endorphin, serotonin, and enkephalin have also been mentioned,27 as have near-death-like experiences after the use of LSD,28 psilocarpine, and mescaline.21 These induced experiences can consist of unconsciousness, out-of-body experiences, and perception of light or flashes of recollection from the past. These recollections, however, consist of fragmented and random memories unlike the panoramic life-review that can occur in NDE. Further, transformational processes with changing life-insight and disappearance of fear of death are rarely reported after induced experiences.


Commentary on this is frequently muddled by people who don't understand the difference between an OBE, and an NDE. They are not the same, though both have very similar patterns, which are even expected to occur, as the article points out.

Dr. Karl still sums it up best:

We still don’t know exactly what causes an NDE, simply because the brain is so fiendishly complicated (as is the concept of consciousness). The brain receives information from our primary senses, such as vision, sound, taste, smell and touch. Skin sensors add information on temperature, pain and pressure, while sensors in the ear give information on your balance and orientation. And sensors in the joints, tendons, muscles and bones tell the brain where our limbs are located. All of these bits of information, and many more as well, flow into our brain like many rivers into a sea, to give us that strange perception that we call “consciousness”.


http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1866095.htm

But even he doesn't clearly differentiate with this comment:

At some stage in the future, we might know enough about the Brain to fully understand the Near Death Experience. But right now, we know that you don’t have to be dying to have one, and that it neither proves nor disproves the existence of an after-life.


The G-LOC is not an NDE, it is an OBE.
_hypatia
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Post by _hypatia »

I have read four books on NDEs, and a question occurred to me as I was reading the posts on this thread: Why are the people, relatives, and loved ones encountered on the other side always those who have died?

I have yet to read of a NDE where a living person was encountered in the great beyond. Wouldn't it make sense that the mind could trip itself up and encounter a still-living and loved being? The experiences seem rather universally consistent to me, no matter what time or age.
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_Inconceivable
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Post by _Inconceivable »

hypatia wrote:I have read four books on NDEs, and a question occurred to me as I was reading the posts on this thread: Why are the people, relatives, and loved ones encountered on the other side always those who have died?

I have yet to read of a NDE where a living person was encountered in the great beyond. Wouldn't it make sense that the mind could trip itself up and encounter a still-living and loved being? The experiences seem rather universally consistent to me, no matter what time or age.


That's a great point.
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