Large numbers of members apostatizing - says Marlin K Jensen

[_Drifting]

Interesting though how MKJ treats the official publications as doctrine. Well, not really interesting to me, but should be interesting to some......

You just couldn't resist! ;-)

[_Darth J]

That doesn't seem to be the case either. This never comes up in Church probably because there are no scientific problems associated with the Book of Mormon. Not DNA, not steel, not horses, nothing.

I don't think anyone really disputes that your contrived, ad hoc theories and denials are perfectly compatible with your misunderstanding of history and science.

[_Quasimodo]

It's not anti-Mormonism. It's reality vs Mormonism.

Actually, the latter is pretty much the working definition of "anti-Mormonism."

I do appreciate your point. It doesn't sound quite as bad, though :). I think of "anti-Mormon" as a talking point used by those who are trying to disparage anyone who has doubts. "Godless Communists", "Tax and Spend Liberals", "Fat Cat Republicans"... all the same.

[Guest]

One has to ask if Elder Jensen was exaggerating when he said it was an apostasy akin to the Kirtland era apostasy. Bcspace?

He didn't say that. He said "since", not akin. It was the questioner who brought up "droves". It illustrates what I said, there are facts and then there lies, rumors, and innuendo surrounding those facts most intentional imho, some perhaps like in this case, unintentional.

Not that, but it seems that the questioners, who only have anecdotal information, are assuming people are leaving "in droves" over historical information and MKJ is certainly not acknowledging to what degree that is the case. My own experience (also anecdotal) remains that this type of apostasy on it's own is rare. When someone trys to leave because of some sin or offense (also sin), that is when they add unbelief to justify. Some type sin, immorality or otherwise, is always what it boils down to and it happened well before unbelief.

[_Drifting]

One has to ask if Elder Jensen was exaggerating when he said it was an apostasy akin to the Kirtland era apostasy. Bcspace?

He didn't say that. He said "since", not akin. It was the questioner who brought up "droves". It illustrates what I said, there are facts and then there lies, rumors, and innuendo surrounding those facts most intentional imho, some perhaps like in this case, unintentional.

And they realize that maybe since Kirtland, we never have had a period of, I’ll call it apostasy, like we’re having right now; largely over these issues.

It doesn't sound like he's talking about the odd one or two members when he says 'a period' of apostasy, the likes of which hasn't been seen since Kirtland.

[_bcspace]

Now here is the danger for all of you and that is to hang on (cherry-pick) MKJ's words as if they were the only words of the Church. Create a better environment sure, but to many of you, that means changing the doctrine and we have word from the Church through other voices that that hasn't happened and is likely not going to happen.

[_Fence Sitter]

7 billion people in the world. That leaves 6,986,000,000 non members. I think BC has it right when he thinks this is over blown. The church is just inconsequential.

By the way I like Jensen also. I wonder if his candor is why he was replaced as Church Historian?

[_bcspace]

7 billion people in the world. That leaves 6,986,000,000 non members. I think BC has it right when he thinks this is over blown. The church is just inconsequential.

The Bible does say "few there be that find it".

[_Drifting]

Now here is the danger for all of you and that is to hang on (cherry-pick) MKJ's words as if they were the only words of the Church. Create a better environment sure, but to many of you, that means changing the doctrine and we have word from the Church through other voices that that hasn't happened and is likely not going to happen.

LOOK OUT MARVIN!
Bcspace is about to throw you under a bus....

[_bcspace]

Now here is the danger for all of you and that is to hang on (cherry-pick) MKJ's words as if they were the only words of the Church. Create a better environment sure, but to many of you, that means changing the doctrine and we have word from the Church through other voices that that hasn't happened and is likely not going to happen.

LOOK OUT MARVIN!
Bcspace is about to throw you under a bus....

I have no problem with what he's said in the cast so far (I have 7 mins to go) and noting this is not a doctrinal talk (unless the Church publishes it). But yes, if he advanced the Democrats like he did in 1998 (and the Church, incidentally, had no comment on) I would throw him under a bus.