Why does The Book of Mormon teach 4th and 5th century Creeds

[_spotlight]

Faith is not a work we do. Faith is a work GOD manifests within us. A person like yourself that rejects the faith the Holy Spirit manifests hardens his heart and expels GOD. It's through the grace of GOD that we are given any chance at all at salvation. GOD isn't going to beat you over the head with the grace He freely distributes. The work an ingrate does is to reject the faith GOD provided. This is the one sin that GOD cannot forgive --- to reject the HOLY SPIRIT's leading of faith.

I'm not trying to be a contrarian Nipper, rather I'm trying to extract from you a clear definition of what it is that we do on our part to become saved rather than remain on our way to eternal punishment. If I read you correctly you are saying now that in your view we all are given faith but that we can choose to reject it.

So if we do nothing at all we become saved each and every one of us? But how does one reject this faith lacking any experience of it? I was not born with any faith in a god. My parents avoided indoctrinating us into any religion and never broached the subject of theism within our home having decided, I suppose, that it would do more harm than good to do so. So now what? A human exists that does not experience the faith you claim is given to everyone. Are they lying? There was never any spirit at any time in my life that led me to believe anything about a god. When I joined a church at a young age I did so believing those who taught me knew whereof they spoke. That was never borne out over time.

So say for the sake of argument that I were to accept your religious views as having merit. Now what do I do exactly? Do I pretend to experience the influence of some spirit so I can be saved? You see your experience is yours alone and it seems a bit arrogant to say that because you think you felt a spirit that you know others are having this experience as well, because I am not and never have.

[_LittleNipper]

Faith is not a work we do. Faith is a work GOD manifests within us. A person like yourself that rejects the faith the Holy Spirit manifests hardens his heart and expels GOD. It's through the grace of GOD that we are given any chance at all at salvation. GOD isn't going to beat you over the head with the grace He freely distributes. The work an ingrate does is to reject the faith GOD provided. This is the one sin that GOD cannot forgive --- to reject the HOLY SPIRIT's leading of faith.

I'm not trying to be a contrarian Nipper, rather I'm trying to extract from you a clear definition of what it is that we do on our part to become saved rather than remain on our way to eternal punishment. If I read you correctly you are saying now that in your view we all are given faith but that we can choose to reject it.

So if we do nothing at all we become saved each and every one of us? But how does one reject this faith lacking any experience of it? I was not born with any faith in a god. My parents avoided indoctrinating us into any religion and never broached the subject of theism within our home having decided, I suppose, that it would do more harm than good to do so. So now what? A human exists that does not experience the faith you claim is given to everyone. Are they lying? There was never any spirit at any time in my life that led me to believe anything about a god. When I joined a church at a young age I did so believing those who taught me knew whereof they spoke. That was never borne out over time.

So say for the sake of argument that I were to accept your religious views as having merit. Now what do I do exactly? Do I pretend to experience the influence of some spirit so I can be saved? You see your experience is yours alone and it seems a bit arrogant to say that because you think you felt a spirit that you know others are having this experience as well, because I am not and never have.

You beseech GOD to save you and thank GOD for sending Jesus Christ to pay the penalty you (we all) should have paid in full (eternal separation from GOD). After that GOD will begin to lead you and bring you closer and closer to HIM. I believe GOD will give you a clearer understanding of scripture and through His eyes you will gain discernment that is not based on "feelings" but a foundation of real substance...

[_spotlight]

You beseech GOD to save you and thank GOD for sending Jesus Christ to pay the penalty you (we all) should have paid in full (eternal separation from GOD). After that GOD will begin to lead you and bring you closer and closer to HIM. I believe GOD will give you a clearer understanding of scripture and through His eyes you will gain discernment that is not based on "feelings" but a foundation of real substance...

What you describe is a process of confirmation bias. Been there done that. It isn't evidence of anything more than man's ability to believe weird stuff.

So anyone who without having up to this point in time any reason or evidence whatsoever to believe there is such a thing as a god must beseech and thank this god? How would one do that exactly at this point in time? Doesn't make any sense. What makes less sense is this god sending people off to suffer eternally for failing to do this with no reason whatsoever to do it - at this point in time.

[_LittleNipper]

You beseech GOD to save you and thank GOD for sending Jesus Christ to pay the penalty you (we all) should have paid in full (eternal separation from GOD). After that GOD will begin to lead you and bring you closer and closer to HIM. I believe GOD will give you a clearer understanding of scripture and through His eyes you will gain discernment that is not based on "feelings" but a foundation of real substance...

What you describe is a process of confirmation bias. Been there done that. It isn't evidence of anything more than man's ability to believe weird stuff.

So anyone who without having up to this point in time any reason or evidence whatsoever to believe there is such a thing as a god must beseech and thank this god? How would one do that exactly at this point in time? Doesn't make any sense. What makes less sense is this god sending people off to suffer eternally for failing to do this with no reason whatsoever to do it - at this point in time.

You ask GOD to reveal HIS reality to you. But that means realizing that God may have send an idiot like me to answer your questions.

[_spotlight]

You ask GOD to reveal HIS reality to you. But that means realizing that God may have send an idiot like me to answer your questions.

There's the rub Nipper. You provide the interpretation for me of a rather mundane fact or occurrence. In other words it's make believe. Make it up. Believe it. Anything else?

[_LittleNipper]

You ask GOD to reveal HIS reality to you. But that means realizing that God may have send an idiot like me to answer your questions.

There's the rub Nipper. You provide the interpretation for me of a rather mundane fact or occurrence. In other words it's make believe. Make it up. Believe it. Anything else?

So, how did life originate on this planet? Why is there design? Why is there evil? What is good? Why do some people lead seemingly charmed lives and other face constant struggles? I can lead you to the water,; however, it's up to you to take a drink. GOD never said for Christians to beat people over the head with the Gospel. He merely expects Christians to share it. This I have done ---- repeatedly for your benefit.

[_spotlight]

So, how did life originate on this planet? Why is there design? Why is there evil? What is good? Why do some people lead seemingly charmed lives and other face constant struggles? I can lead you to the water,; however, it's up to you to take a drink. GOD never said for Christians to beat people over the head with the Gospel. He merely expects Christians to share it. This I have done ---- repeatedly for your benefit.

Yes Nipper, I realize what you are engaged in. It's really not that dissimilar to my mission activity in Argentina in the 70s. I thought I was doing the same thing and without the education that I now have I supposed as well that everything I taught to others was a reflection of ultimate reality just as you do.

Your questions have nothing whatsoever to do with the veracity of your theology. To understand this suppose there is in the world a society of believers that believe in a race of aliens that are responsible for the existence of life on earth. Suppose these aliens are not of our universe but are supposed to be from some greater realm of existence that would pass for supernatural powers in comparison to ourselves in this reality. They also believe that this universe was created very recently like yourself. I point out to them these same contradictions that I have brought up to you and they, like yourself, ask me how life got started then. They, not comprehending how evolution works to apparently create things that appear to be designed ask me why design exists. They point to good and evil and an unfair life where some are charmed while others starve.

Like you, if I fail to provide answers that satisfy them, they use that occasion to assert that their story of aliens who created our universe must by default be the correct explanation for us and all that there is. You are no different. If you were born in Iraq or Iran you'd be a Muslim preaching to me instead of a Christian. If you were raised in a Jehovah Witness family you'd be a Jehovah Witness. Or you'd be a Mormon or a believer in Odin or Thor if born in a different age. You have nothing special Nipper. You have simply never questioned anything you've grown up with.

[_LittleNipper]

So, how did life originate on this planet? Why is there design? Why is there evil? What is good? Why do some people lead seemingly charmed lives and other face constant struggles? I can lead you to the water,; however, it's up to you to take a drink. GOD never said for Christians to beat people over the head with the Gospel. He merely expects Christians to share it. This I have done ---- repeatedly for your benefit.

Yes Nipper, I realize what you are engaged in. It's really not that dissimilar to my mission activity in Argentina in the 70s. I thought I was doing the same thing and without the education that I now have I supposed as well that everything I taught to others was a reflection of ultimate reality just as you do.

Your questions have nothing whatsoever to do with the veracity of your theology. To understand this suppose there is in the world a society of believers that believe in a race of aliens that are responsible for the existence of life on earth. Suppose these aliens are not of our universe but are supposed to be from some greater realm of existence that would pass for supernatural powers in comparison to ourselves in this reality. They also believe that this universe was created very recently like yourself. I point out to them these same contradictions that I have brought up to you and they, like yourself, ask me how life got started then. They, not comprehending how evolution works to apparently create things that appear to be designed ask me why design exists. They point to good and evil and an unfair life where some are charmed while others starve.

Like you, if I fail to provide answers that satisfy them, they use that occasion to assert that their story of aliens who created our universe must by default be the correct explanation for us and all that there is. You are no different. If you were born in Iraq or Iran you'd be a Muslim preaching to me instead of a Christian. If you were raised in a Jehovah Witness family you'd be a Jehovah Witness. Or you'd be a Mormon or a believer in Odin or Thor if born in a different age. You have nothing special Nipper. You have simply never questioned anything you've grown up with.

I don't wish to hurt your feelings; however, I don't believe you had any Bible education to be a suitable "missionary". In fact you likely knew less about the Bible than you did the Book of Mormon. I've spoken to not a few Mormon missionaries and found them to be very naïve and actually rather speechless when confronted by even a simple Liberty Baptist student... The idiocy of aliens having brought life here is that it only extends the issue ---- who created the aliens? And not everyone who is treated "poorly" reacts with evil, and some who have everything only seems to want more. There are plenty of modern thinkers living in New Jersey who might have converted me to their logic, but it didn't happen. There are plenty of Jehovah Witnesses who are now True Christians. JW's like to rewrite the Bible to suit their doctrine --- but this like the fake Book of Mormon eventually cause many to leave that organization in search of the truth.

[_spotlight]

I don't wish to hurt your feelings; however, I don't believe you had any Bible education to be a suitable "missionary". In fact you likely knew less about the Bible than you did the Book of Mormon. I've spoken to not a few Mormon missionaries and found them to be very naïve and actually rather speechless when confronted by even a simple Liberty Baptist student.

I will bet I've read the entire Bible more times than you have Nipper. I was in the habit of reading it as well as the rest of the LDS canon once a year for a majority of my life. Granted that was simply reading it without consulting the view of scholars but I'll bet you are not in agreement with scholars in your interpretation either.

The idiocy of aliens having brought life here is that it only extends the issue ---- who created the aliens?

It is a thought exercise only. I am not making that claim. That is why I threw in the idiotic claim that they were from a supernatural realm above our universe. And who created your god? You see Nipper there is no distinction between the idiotic alien and your god besides the name we choose to use to represent the basic idea here.

It's fairly easy to see through other people's sacred cows but a little tougher to see through our own.

And not everyone who is treated "poorly" reacts with evil, and some who have everything only seems to want more.

And how is this evidence for the existence of a god exactly?

There are plenty of modern thinkers living in New Jersey who might have converted me to their logic, but it didn't happen. There are plenty of Jehovah Witnesses who are now True Christians. JW's like to rewrite the Bible to suit their doctrine --- but this like the fake Book of Mormon eventually cause many to leave that organization in search of the truth.

A literal take on the Bible has been disproved Nipper. The fact that you are ignorant of this does not make it otherwise.

[_LittleNipper]

I don't wish to hurt your feelings; however, I don't believe you had any Bible education to be a suitable "missionary". In fact you likely knew less about the Bible than you did the Book of Mormon. I've spoken to not a few Mormon missionaries and found them to be very naïve and actually rather speechless when confronted by even a simple Liberty Baptist student.

I will bet I've read the entire Bible more times than you have Nipper. I was in the habit of reading it as well as the rest of the LDS canon once a year for a majority of my life. Granted that was simply reading it without consulting the view of scholars but I'll bet you are not in agreement with scholars in your interpretation either.

The idiocy of aliens having brought life here is that it only extends the issue ---- who created the aliens?

It is a thought exercise only. I am not making that claim. That is why I threw in the idiotic claim that they were from a supernatural realm above our universe. And who created your god? You see Nipper there is no distinction between the idiotic alien and your god besides the name we choose to use to represent the basic idea here.

It's fairly easy to see through other people's sacred cows but a little tougher to see through our own.

And not everyone who is treated "poorly" reacts with evil, and some who have everything only seems to want more.

And how is this evidence for the existence of a god exactly?

There are plenty of modern thinkers living in New Jersey who might have converted me to their logic, but it didn't happen. There are plenty of Jehovah Witnesses who are now True Christians. JW's like to rewrite the Bible to suit their doctrine --- but this like the fake Book of Mormon eventually cause many to leave that organization in search of the truth.

A literal take on the Bible has been disproved Nipper. The fact that you are ignorant of this does not make it otherwise.

How is the existence Israel explained and why is it in the center of everything over and over. Why are prophetic revelations coming to be fulfilled. Do you realize that until the 1920's the likelihood that Israel would ever exist again was pretty must considered allegorical and that all the blessings GOD promised Israel supposedly fell solely to the CHURCH. The reality is that most Christians who believed this way are having a harder and harder time explaining Israel and the fact that the US now recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Now, who would have imagined that 5 years ago? Who would imagine that there is the reality that the Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem? What small percentage of the world's population is of Jewish descent? And yet they are among the smartest, the most talented, the brightest and coveted group of people that ever lived. And they just happen to be the ones to whom Jesus born.......................