ldsfaqs wrote:President Kimball was correct..... Someone who joins the Church, is raised in it, spiritually change in their "countenances" which is another way of saying "skin". Anyone who actually has a brain to understand scriptural symbolism knows that the Book of Mormon wasn't generally talking about "literal" skin color. Especially when at some points Lamanites were actually WHITE.
Further, being raised in modernity will have an actual skin color change. Thus, either way, the Prophets and the Book of Mormon are correct.
Your reply does not address Kimball's statement of a child living with her parents in the same hogan, same environment. Kimball most clearly meant a skin color change. He spoke this from the pulpit of the tabernacle during General Conference. This has nothing to do with scriptural symbolism. It was a sick thing to put on American Indian children.
http://scriptures.BYU.edu/gettalk.php?ID=1091&era=yes "At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents-on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather. There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation. These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated. "
ldsfaqs wrote:President Kimball was correct..... Someone who joins the Church, is raised in it, spiritually change in their "countenances" which is another way of saying "skin". Anyone who actually has a brain to understand scriptural symbolism knows that the Book of Mormon wasn't generally talking about "literal" skin color. Especially when at some points Lamanites were actually WHITE.
Further, being raised in modernity will have an actual skin color change. Thus, either way, the Prophets and the Book of Mormon are correct.
(Hand on forehead). My God, how does one answer this? This may be the single silliest post I've ever read on this board (that's saying a lot). I don't know where to start, so I won't. Maybe someone else would like to take swing at this slow ball.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
tapirrider wrote:Your reply does not address Kimball's statement of a child living with her parents in the same hogan, same environment. Kimball most clearly meant a skin color change. He spoke this from the pulpit of the tabernacle during General Conference. This has nothing to do with scriptural symbolism. It was a sick thing to put on American Indian children.
http://scriptures.BYU.edu/gettalk.php?ID=1091&era=yes "At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents-on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather. There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation. These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated. "
Actually, your quote here directly is equivalent to my last statement.... MODERNITY caused a skin color change.
Truth is not "sick"..... Peoples skin colors DO change because of modernity, and they DO change due to spiritual light as exhibited in ones countenance, or as a "native" of Book of Mormon times would call it, ones "skin". How else would one describe the spirit of light that is manifested in ones "being", i.e. their skin? They would call it skin.
Understand, I'm not stating that skin color didn't have a place in the Book of Mormon, that Lamanites and Nephites were lighter and darker than the other. But, it was in most cases talking about spirituality, not actual skin color.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
Quasimodo wrote:(Hand on forehead). My God, how does one answer this? This may be the single silliest post I've ever read on this board (that's saying a lot). I don't know where to start, so I won't. Maybe someone else would like to take swing at this slow ball.
Don't blame LDS for YOUR OWN ignorance, lack of intellectual rigure, lack of comprehension of scripture, and essentially a complete lack of understanding of Mormonism itself, thus placing strawmen of your OWN MIND, fantasy's of YOUR OWN MIND onto Mormonism, that isn't actually Mormonism.
Only intellectual "children" like you interpret and understand the Book of Mormon with such literalism. Bottom line with you all, is you don't really know the Book of Mormon at all, thus you judge it like a child would, missing many important facts.
Here's a video series on the subject which should start you getting a clue.
ldsfaqs wrote:Don't blame LDS for YOUR OWN ignorance, lack of intellectual rigure, lack of comprehension of scripture, and essentially a complete lack of understanding of Mormonism itself, thus placing strawmen of your OWN MIND, fantasy's of YOUR OWN MIND onto Mormonism, that isn't actually Mormonism.
http://www.answers.com/topic/rigour-2 wrote:Home > Library > Literature & Language > Dictionary > rigour (rĭg'ər) n. Chiefly British Variant of rigor.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
"At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents-on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather. There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation. These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated. "[/quote]
ldsfaqs,
The Prophet Kimball states unequivocally that young members of the Church were having their skin turn lighter in shade as a result of righteousness. No matter what mental gymnastics you wish to practice this is clear to even the most ardent defender of the faith.
Do you believe, as Kimball clearly did, that eventually all righteous Mormons will have a white skin colour?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Drifting wrote:Do you believe, as Kimball clearly did, that eventually all righteous Mormons will have a white skin colour?
From his/her performance here so far it is clear that ldsfaqs does believe that all righteous Mormons will eventually have become white and delightsome (because a prophet of the Lord said so). Whether he/she will admit as much is another question.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."
DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
Drifting wrote:Do you believe, as Kimball clearly did, that eventually all righteous Mormons will have a white skin colour?
From his/her performance here so far it is clear that ldsfaqs does believe that all righteous Mormons will eventually have become white and delightsome (because a prophet of the Lord said so). Whether he/she will admit as much is another question.
Would any other believing Mormons like to pitch in on this subject? Was the Prophet Kimball correct in pointing out that he saw dark skinned people literally turning into light skinned people as a direct result of righteous belief in Mormonism?
Do you believe that all righteous Mormons will eventually be light skinned?
( I predict that Kimball will be thrown under the bus on this one...)
Last edited by Guest on Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
tapirrider wrote:Your reply does not address Kimball's statement of a child living with her parents in the same hogan, same environment. Kimball most clearly meant a skin color change. He spoke this from the pulpit of the tabernacle during General Conference. This has nothing to do with scriptural symbolism. It was a sick thing to put on American Indian children.
http://scriptures.BYU.edu/gettalk.php?ID=1091&era=yes "At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents-on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather. There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation. These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated. "
Actually, your quote here directly is equivalent to my last statement.... MODERNITY caused a skin color change.
Truth is not "sick"..... Peoples skin colors DO change because of modernity, and they DO change due to spiritual light as exhibited in ones countenance, or as a "native" of Book of Mormon times would call it, ones "skin". How else would one describe the spirit of light that is manifested in ones "being", i.e. their skin? They would call it skin.
Understand, I'm not stating that skin color didn't have a place in the Book of Mormon, that Lamanites and Nephites were lighter and darker than the other. But, it was in most cases talking about spirituality, not actual skin color.
Please explain what you mean by "modernity". What does "modernity" have to do with "on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather."
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
