No three degrees of Glory in 1 Cor 15

[_Mittens]

The Thief on the Cross who went to Paradise

Actually Jesus went to hell for three days and the thief went to Paradise, The Bible says Paradise is in the third heaven or where God dwells:

1st Heaven is Rakia to a Jew it is the atmospheric heaven found in Jer 8:7, 10:13
Isa 55:10. it is were the birds fly clouds, made on 2nd day

2nd heaven shamayim to a Jew it is the starry heaven found in Jer 44:17,25; Psalm 8:3

3rd heaven shemi Hashamayim it is the heaven where God dwells found in 1 Kings 8:27, Deut. 26:15, 2 Chron 6:33 Eccl. 5:2

This passage below says Paradise is in the third heaven

2 Corth 12:

1 It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows—4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

[_subgenius]

The Thief on the Cross who went to Paradise

It is more likely that the thief had already been baptized as was the custom in that area for most everyone. It would have been rare for the thief to have not been baptized. Perhaps the argument could be made for repentance, but unlikely since we read otherwise.
Pretty sure we are commanded to repent and be baptized in order to "receive"...so, either it is necessary or it is not, and if it is not....then......?

More importantly! Lest you forget (which you obviously have forgotten)
Realize that when the thief died the old covenant was still in place for Christ had not yet died for us.....context is always important.

But read Luke 23:43
And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.
Today? Today you will be with Me in paradise? How is that so? for "today" Christ did not go to paradise...for "today" the only place Christ went was to the grave....is the grave paradise?

[_Drifting]

The Thief on the Cross who went to Paradise

It is more likely that the thief had already been baptized as was the custom in that area for most everyone. It would have been rare for the thief to have not been baptized.

I trust you obviously, but for the benefit of people new to your posting style perhaps you can furnish us with the supporting facts fir thus assertion...

[_Albion]

Drifting, "baptizing" was not a new concept to the people of Jesus' day. It was, however done as a ritual cleansing rather than for the remission of sin. While the thief on the cross might (and the gospel writers don't make it clear if he was even a Jew) have "baptized" himself, immersed himself in a ritual cleansing before, say, entering the temple, submission to John's baptism might be relatively remote. His condition as a convicted criminal deserving such justice, as he admitted, indicates that if he was baptized it didn't do much to change hislife. We just don't know anything more about him that what is contained in the gospels and should take that at face value IMV.

[_Mittens]

One thing we can be clear from the passage in Luke 23:43
And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.
Today? Today you will be with Me in paradise? How is that so? for "today" Christ did not go to paradise...for "today" the only place Christ went was to the grave....is the grave paradise?

Jesus went to hell

However in acts 2:

25 “King David quoted Jesus as saying:
‘I know the Lord is always with me. He is helping me. God’s mighty power supports me.
26 ’No wonder my heart is filled with joy and my tongue shouts his praises! For I know all will be well with me in death—
27 ’You will not leave my soul in hell or let the body of your Holy Son decay.
28 ’You will give me back my life and give me wonderful joy in your presence.’
29 “Dear brothers, think! David wasn’t referring to himself when he spoke these words I have quoted, for he died and was buried, and his tomb is still here among us. 30 But he was a prophet, and knew God had promised with an unbreakable oath that one of David’s own descendants would be the Messiah and£ sit on David’s throne. 31 David was looking far into the future and predicting the Messiah’s resurrection, and saying that the Messiah’s soul would not be left in hell and his body would not decay. 32 He was speaking of Jesus, and we all are witnesses that Jesus rose from the dead.
33 “And now he sits on the throne of highest honor in heaven, next to God. And just as promised, the Father gave him the authority to send the Holy Spirit—with the results you are seeing and hearing today.
34 “No, David was not speaking of himself in these words of his I have quoted, for he never ascended into the skies. Moreover, he further stated, ‘God spoke to my Lord, the Messiah, and said to him, Sit here in honor beside me 35until I bring your enemies into complete subjection.’

Acts 13:34 “For God had promised to bring him back to life again, no more to die. This is stated in the Scripture that says, ‘I will do for you the wonderful thing I promised David.’ 35 In another Psalm he explained more fully, saying, ‘God will not let his Holy One decay.’ 36 This was not a reference to David, for after David had served his generation according to the will of God, he died and was buried, and his body decayed. 37 No, it was a reference to another—someone God brought back to life, whose body was not touched at all by the ravages of death.

In Mormon Doctrine we have the answer that it wasn't David in Psa 16:8 under Corruption Corruption is also used to signify the decay and change that will take place after death.[u] Thus David recorded the Lord's promise that he would not suffer his Holy One to see corruption [/u](Ps. 16:10), a promise amply fulfilled in Christ as both Peter (Acts 2:27) and Paul (Acts 13:30-37) testified.

and We know the thief when to the Third heaven where God dwells the scriptures are certain along with Mormon Doctrine

[_subgenius]

One thing we can be clear from the passage in Luke 23:43
And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.
Today? Today you will be with Me in paradise? How is that so? for "today" Christ did not go to paradise...for "today" the only place Christ went was to the grave....is the grave paradise?

Jesus went to hell

However in acts 2:

25 “King David quoted Jesus as saying:
‘I know the Lord is always with me. He is helping me. God’s mighty power supports me.
26 ’No wonder my heart is filled with joy and my tongue shouts his praises! For I know all will be well with me in death—
27 ’You will not leave my soul in hell or let the body of your Holy Son decay.
28 ’You will give me back my life and give me wonderful joy in your presence.’
29 “Dear brothers, think! David wasn’t referring to himself when he spoke these words I have quoted, for he died and was buried, and his tomb is still here among us. 30 But he was a prophet, and knew God had promised with an unbreakable oath that one of David’s own descendants would be the Messiah and£ sit on David’s throne. 31 David was looking far into the future and predicting the Messiah’s resurrection, and saying that the Messiah’s soul would not be left in hell and his body would not decay. 32 He was speaking of Jesus, and we all are witnesses that Jesus rose from the dead.
33 “And now he sits on the throne of highest honor in heaven, next to God. And just as promised, the Father gave him the authority to send the Holy Spirit—with the results you are seeing and hearing today.
34 “No, David was not speaking of himself in these words of his I have quoted, for he never ascended into the skies. Moreover, he further stated, ‘God spoke to my Lord, the Messiah, and said to him, Sit here in honor beside me 35until I bring your enemies into complete subjection.’

Acts 13:34 “For God had promised to bring him back to life again, no more to die. This is stated in the Scripture that says, ‘I will do for you the wonderful thing I promised David.’ 35 In another Psalm he explained more fully, saying, ‘God will not let his Holy One decay.’ 36 This was not a reference to David, for after David had served his generation according to the will of God, he died and was buried, and his body decayed. 37 No, it was a reference to another—someone God brought back to life, whose body was not touched at all by the ravages of death.

In Mormon Doctrine we have the answer that it wasn't David in Psa 16:8 under Corruption Corruption is also used to signify the decay and change that will take place after death.[u] Thus David recorded the Lord's promise that he would not suffer his Holy One to see corruption [/u](Ps. 16:10), a promise amply fulfilled in Christ as both Peter (Acts 2:27) and Paul (Acts 13:30-37) testified.

and We know the thief when to the Third heaven where God dwells the scriptures are certain along with Mormon Doctrine

ummm
you did not respond to the topic about the thief.....and about "today"....and the thief and the covenant are not resolved via your off-topic reference to David.
focus
focus
focus

what you are doing, Mittens, in terms of logical arguments is called "moving the goal posts" - read HERE and being a texas sharpshooter - HERE

[_Drifting]

The Thief on the Cross who went to Paradise

It is more likely that the thief had already been baptized as was the custom in that area for most everyone. It would have been rare for the thief to have not been baptized.

I trust you obviously, but for the benefit of people new to your posting style perhaps you can furnish us with the supporting facts for this assertion...

Bump...

Subby, just say if you've been running your mouth off...again....

[_subgenius]

Bump...

Subby, just say if you've been running your mouth off...again....

as usual you read very little about that which you criticize so much...
Confirmation by Albion
it is actually a common and "scholarly" assumption, but alas i do not have a photograph of the thief's baptism.

that all being said, Christ was certainly capable of circumventing "the rules" and saving the thief as He saw fit...however, the evidence seems to require a different conclusion.

As it is obvious that the thief would actually not be required to be baptized, his being a pre-covenant/ pre-commission death, the issue which Mittens attempted to resolve by invoking the "thief" still remains open!!! - aside from this distraction - no evangelical can give an example where "salvation", being "born again", or "justification" occurs without fulfilling the commandment (work) of repenting and being baptized!! (and for what it is worth, 'belief' is a work also)

[_Albion]

Of course, Drifting, there is no evidence there other than what is written no matter what anyone wants to read into it. From acknowledgement of the shame of his condition and the scorn of the other thief he went to penitence and faith asking Jesus to remember him when Jesus comes into his kingdom. There is not a single clue that he was baptized, not a single clue that he was even a Jew, only that he was a condemned criminal who acknowledged his guilt and was deserving of punishment. Clearly the story demonstrates that God's grace is greater than the prayer and that in Jesus' promise is a clear evidence that where Jesus is there is life and there is the Kingdom.

[_Tobin]

I fail to see why subgenius is arguing against the thief going to paradise without being baptized? Paradise is just part of the spirit world (the next life) and there is no requirement that you be baptized to go there.