Prayer and Learning by the Spirit

[_RockSlider]

1. When will Zion be restored?
a. It is here now.
2. Is it being run by the Church?
a. No
3. Where do I find it?
a. Independence
4. Should I be there?
a. yes
5. Do I leave the LDS Church to be there?
a. yes

I assumed you would respond with a pearls before swine answer, so I own you at least one:

1. New World Order will be the beginning of the end
2. If I am willing, I will die for the cause of the small stone that would roll out from this beginning of the end
3. I should put together guns and ammo for defense as well as hunting for the hard times this would involve
4. I should have "Basic Food storage" for 1 year for 20 people
5. I should have "Extended Food storage" for 1 year for my family of 5

Gee our lists have a lot in common don't you think? So do you suppose this gives more evidence of the truthfulness and importance of our individual messages? Or is it possible that there is some other common influence that tended to lead us to a paranoia and wasted time money and in general life?


My list is from 20 years ago:
1. never happened
2. never happened
3. love guns, so all the reloading/ammo/guns are a nice inheritance for my kids
4. still down there, if you come move it out, its yours for free
5. spoiled for the most part.

God the time, money, effort and sacrifice of just plan life I threw away to that list.

I truly hope better for you Jay ... but dude enjoy the day, don't waste it on false revelation like I did.

[_SteelHead]

Shoot,
If this forum and its attitude is not the place, then please spare us further links to drivel videos.

Thanks.

[_Bazooka]

Actually there are a number of them. I will give them in question and short answer form. There are many more with much more detailed answers, but this forum with the underlying attitudes is not the place for them.

1. When will Zion be restored?
a. It is here now.
2. Is it being run by the Church?
a. No
3. Where do I find it?
a. Independence
4. Should I be there?
a. yes
5. Do I leave the LDS Church to be there?
a. yes

Because of these directions, my life has changed.

If that is looking for an echo chamber, then so be it.

Jay, let's cut to the chase.
How much do you want in return for membership in your particular version of the fairy tale known as 'religion'?

[_RockSlider]

Jay, I would like to hear your thoughts on the personal revelation I shared above

[_Bazooka]

There is no question in my mind that many (if not most) who have received answers have not had them confirmed (either for or against the Church) by the Holy Ghost.

On what basis can you make such a claim?
You have no comprehension what others have or haven't felt and how that differs from what you believe you have felt.
But let's put that to the test.
1. Describe for us what sensations and feelings denote a communication from God by way of a confirmation by the Holy Spirit.
2. Define for us how you KNOW that communication was from God and not from some self generated or other supernatural force.

We can't expect the Holy Ghost to come at our whim. It is a relationship that is built over time.

Who said anything about a whim?
Are you belittling the intentions of others who have sought the Holy Ghost?
Are you saying that your experience was just that bit more special?

In what discernable way can any supernatural force be described? A supernatural force is by definition beyond scientific understanding or laws of nature.

That's a definition, not a description.
I'm asking you describe what you felt, saw, heard etc that made it identifiable as a communication from the spirit.

Anything Jay? Anything at all?

[_subgenius]

Hey Jay and sub … I used to explain my personal revelation something like this. Some idea is presented to me, typically by other normal human beings. I immediately find fault in these ideas, sometimes finding them almost offensive. Then comes the serious study, ponder and pray and then the ah-ha … taught by the spirit moment, when it’s as if one pokes their head above the veil and the forgetfulness of the veil is removed from one’s eyes, and it now becomes as if the truth of that idea has always been known, that you cannot remember a time that it was not true.

If you have experienced what I have tried to explain above, please then share with me one of these truths that has been revealed to you in this manner.

If you share one, I will share one with you which I received.

I think I can predict your answer to this inquiry, and it will be a total cop-out.

The experience you describe above is one that i have not had.


footnote: thanks for being up front with the lack of sincerity in your inquiry with the "total cop-out" presupposition.

[_subgenius]

This is what you said. I never said I thought the claimed truths in the DOI were not true, yet you tried to claim I did. Again, are you lying or just to stupid to understand what people are saying?

Yes you did. The DoI does not claim justification, defintion, nor any other cause for a "truth" other than by "self-evidence".
That is to say, these truths are true because of self-evidence...not some other mystery cause that you would try to insert ad hoc.

You have presented that "self-evident" is not a valid claim by the DoI due to the "disagreement" delusion/clause found in your proposed definition.
So
you have clearly, on this subject, stated that the truths in the DoI cannot be self-evident and as such are not truths at all.

which is exactly what you said.

[_RockSlider]

The experience you describe above is one that i have not had.

I'm all ears sub, please explain then how the most powerful personal revelations have come to you. What was the process, what lead up to them, how did you prepare for them, how were they received etc.

And like Jay volunteered would you be willing to share one of those revelations. Once again if you will share one, I will share a fairly detailed example of the process that lead up to some of mine, or another one of mine, you choose.

[_subgenius]

The experience you describe above is one that i have not had.

I'm all ears sub, please explain then how the most powerful personal revelations have come to you. What was the process, what lead up to them, how did you prepare for them, how were they received etc.

And like Jay volunteered would you be willing to share one of those revelations. Once again if you will share one, I will share a fairly detailed example of the process that lead up to some of mine, or another one of mine, you choose.

I have received a personal revelation as follows:
1. A prayer offered that I may know the truth about a matter.
2. Time and effort being spent studying the matter (variety of methods and sources)
3. A prayer offered that I may know the truth about a matter.
4a. Repeat item 1, 2, and 3 if revelation is not realized.
4b. Revelation provided


I have also received a personal revelation as follows:
1. Spontaneously

[_RockSlider]

I have received a personal revelation as follows:
1. A prayer offered that I may know the truth about a matter.
2. Time and effort being spent studying the matter (variety of methods and sources)
3. A prayer offered that I may know the truth about a matter.
4a. Repeat item 1, 2, and 3 if revelation is not realized.
4b. Revelation provided

I have also received a personal revelation as follows:
1. Spontaneously

So what is different about what I suggested and what you have said here? Was it how you came up with your item 1 ("about a matter" ... what brought this matter to the forefront to start with?). Or was it my trying to explain the effect of the answer ... i.e. poking head to veil, effect of knowledge transfer etc.?

Otherwise it sounds pretty close to what I suggested.

Two of mine were spontaneous, and I would classify these as dreams, how about you?

by the way, it was a dream that lead me to be an ordnance worker in the first place, if you will share the details of any one of your revelations, I'll share with you this experience of mine ... what do you say?