Book of Mormon a Stolen Novel?

[_Rick]

It's easy to make a claim such as "Spaulding wrote it", which is totally ludicrous. First, the lack of a single page of the manuscript to verify writing styles and storyline as well as other content. The fact that the writing styles within the Book of Mormon vary from book to book. There is no evidence that either Joseph Smith or Solomon Spaulding had any clue as to what chiasmus is. The fact the library resources for that time and area were so minimal, the research that would be needed to create such a literary piece, in such a short time, would make the chances astronomical.

[_Tobin]

It's easy to make a claim such as "Spaulding wrote it", which is totally ludicrous. First, the lack of a single page of the manuscript to verify writing styles and storyline as well as other content. The fact that the writing styles within the Book of Mormon vary from book to book. There is no evidence that either Joseph Smith or Solomon Spaulding had any clue as to what chiasmus is. The fact the library resources for that time and area were so minimal, the research that would be needed to create such a literary piece, in such a short time, would make the chances astronomical.

Careful Rick. Chiasmus turn out to be rather common occurances within English prose. I know that sounds surprising, but it is human nature to repeat things throughout a text and so if you go looking for them, you'll find them in many manuscripts. They aren't a good indicator of an authenic ancient origin for a text.

[_Tobin]

Tobin, Is the spaulding manuscript more or less mythical than the non existent, no one has ever seen it, original Abraham writing that you have described?

Are you Themis's sock puppet? I find I'm repeating myself with you again and again. We have the English translation, the Book of Abraham. If it is true, then it had a source. Get it yet? If it is not, then Joseph Smith just made it up. You don't need the mythical Spaulding manuscript to state that.

[_son of Ishmael]

It's easy to make a claim such as "Spaulding wrote it", which is totally ludicrous. First, the lack of a single page of the manuscript to verify writing styles and storyline as well as other content. The fact that the writing styles within the Book of Mormon vary from book to book. There is no evidence that either Joseph Smith or Solomon Spaulding had any clue as to what chiasmus is. The fact the library resources for that time and area were so minimal, the research that would be needed to create such a literary piece, in such a short time, would make the chances astronomical.

"in such a short time" - We have no idea how long Joseph Smith had to write the Book of Mormon. He could have been working on it for a couple of years before he went into "translation" mode.

[_Rick]

It's easy to make a claim such as "Spaulding wrote it", which is totally ludicrous. First, the lack of a single page of the manuscript to verify writing styles and storyline as well as other content. The fact that the writing styles within the Book of Mormon vary from book to book. There is no evidence that either Joseph Smith or Solomon Spaulding had any clue as to what chiasmus is. The fact the library resources for that time and area were so minimal, the research that would be needed to create such a literary piece, in such a short time, would make the chances astronomical.

"in such a short time" - We have no idea how long Joseph Smith had to write the Book of Mormon. He could have been working on it for a couple of years before he went into "translation" mode.

Joseph's movements and involvements are documented. Spending weeks or months in research at ANY library are not there. I would venture to say that YOU could not accomplish such a feat even with the resources of the internet at your disposal. The fact that he did not have much formal education speaks volumes in that regard.

[_son of Ishmael]

What do you mean that Joseph's movements are documented? By whom? You have no idea what he was doing in his free time...

[_Rick]

What do you mean that Joseph's movements are documented? By whom? You have no idea what he was doing in his free time...

Joseph spent almost all of his time trying to help support his family. That is known. Working as a farm hand does not leave much time for anything else. They didn't work the puny little 40 hour work-weeks we do now. Personal journals and other documents tell us there was no time for months of research.

Then we have the issue of the 11 witnesses that saw the plates. The list of evidences are many.

[_Tobin]

What do you mean that Joseph's movements are documented? By whom? You have no idea what he was doing in his free time...

Joseph spent almost all of his time trying to help support his family. That is known. Working as a farm hand does not leave much time for anything else. They didn't work the puny little 40 hour work-weeks we do now. Personal journals and other documents tell us there was no time for months of research.

Then we have the issue of the 11 witnesses that saw the plates. The list of evidences are many.

You aren't going to get anywhere pointing any of that out Rick. son of Ishmael believes that Joseph Smith was a con-artist, and since he believes that - a reasonable explanation is that Joseph Smith just made the whole fraud up (on his own or with help). Obviously, you disagree with this assumption and believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God as do I. So, we look at the evidence quite differently than he does.

[_SteelHead]

Tobin,
If the Spaulding theory is true then it must be based on a real manuscript.

Does my assertion differ from yours, outside of the manuscript in question?

[_Tobin]

Tobin, If the Spaulding theory is true then it must be based on a real manuscript. Does my assertion differ from yours, outside of the manuscript in question?

Yes, in one very important way, the Spaulding theory doesn't ask one to speak with God to verify its truth. It just relies on the assumption that the mythical manuscript existed. As I've pointed out to Themis, there is no reason to believe Joseph Smith was anything but a con-artist without that affirmation. And you don't need a mythical Spaulding manuscript to do that. In fact, believing in something as superficial as that weakens your case. It is much better just to state that Joseph Smith was simply a con-artist and made the whole thing up. You certainly don't need to create a fictional manuscript at all.