Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

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_subgenius
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _subgenius »

Philo Sofee wrote:I think it shows a sad primitive mentality and mindset. Obviously social interaction was little known in the ancient world, why one earth would WE want to continue the Bible's immoral teachings on just about everything it talks about?

correction to my previous post.......i just read this post...we have a new winner.

the "primitive mentality" of property rights, community responsibility, abandoning idol worship, self discovery, self improvement, and the encouraging of being stewards to the environment and to each other.....yep, social interaction was "little known" back then :lol:
and by your post here, i would say that little known applies to you, not only for social interaction but also as applied to a cursory understanding of anything scriptural....and likely spiritual as well.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
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what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_subgenius
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _subgenius »

moksha wrote:Seems like the idea of a big flood is archetypal to human experience. Floods happen and the imagination takes it from there. The points of similarity between the older Mesopotamian epics and the Bible story serve as indicators of origin but are definitely not proof. Joseph Campbell has pointed out that stories transmitted from one culture to another can have even older roots.

certainly a valid opinion...but equally based on speculation, perhaps even more so since there is no record for that position. There is, however, an ancient record of a flood event, even if currently that record is only archaeological through text....there is no contrary text in the record. Perhaps there was poetic license taken by a culture, perhaps not.
As for Campbell, you are far from having convinced me that the frog is just another dragon.

moksha wrote:We should never forget that morals we glean from Grimm's Fairy Tales, stem directly from those tales. Scientists everywhere should take note of that and not keep saying otherwise!!!

not sure i follow the train of thought here...but your conclusion for the short-sighted scientist, and often just visually impaired, is a solid prediction...and one that will likely not be realized until they are atop their own tower of babylon.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_subgenius
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _subgenius »

Drifting wrote:
Drifting wrote:Subby, do you believe the Flood happened, literally as described in the scriptures and why?


Bump...

bump back

given your consistent avoidance of direct questions and of other poster's "bumps", i believe even you can surmise the futility of you bumping anyone.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Drifting
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _Drifting »

Drifting wrote:
Drifting wrote:Subby, do you believe the Flood happened, literally as described in the scriptures and why?


Bump...

subgenius wrote:*well, pretty much nothing*



Are you afraid God will smite you if you say you don't believe in a literal worldwide flood...?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

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Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Samantabhadra
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _Samantabhadra »

subgenius wrote:
Philo Sofee wrote:The Bible is a man made book. Who among us would give our daughters up to thugs so they can have sex with her as Lot did? One among many of the silly problems in that book.

a more naïve, narrow-minded, and uninformed opinion on the Bible has yet to be posted....anywhere.


+1

And sub, there is good physical evidence (not just textual) in support of a massive flood in Mesopotamia some 4-5000 years ago.
_Drifting
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _Drifting »

Samantabhadra wrote:
And sub, there is good physical evidence (not just textual) in support of a massive flood in Mesopotamia some 4-5000 years ago.


Such as?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_subgenius
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _subgenius »

Drifting wrote:
Samantabhadra wrote:
And sub, there is good physical evidence (not just textual) in support of a massive flood in Mesopotamia some 4-5000 years ago.


Such as?

Drift...countless proofs have been provided by me in previous threads (for example), all without your rebuttal, so likely this means you agree.

But let us look at some key points, in a short short list just to get the ball rolling:
Logical evidence
1. It is very unlikely that a "localized" area experienced rain for 40 day/night.
2. The rainbow's first appearance reinforces the notion that a cataclysmic event took place. Otherwise, its just business as usual...but this was a dramatic atmospheric event.
3. Local flood would not remain in place for a year
4. A local flood could not destroy all the living things upon the earth
5. The indicated design size of the ark is way too excessive for just local species of animals.
6. Spending over a century to build an ark in unlikely if Noah could have just relocated to an area away form the flood.
7. If God lied about the flood then He is in fact not God and unable to provide salvation.

Science evidence
1. The glacial period began quickly, which would require a cataclysmic event to trigger such a global climate change...the flood is a possible event as that trigger.
2. The geologic record indicates many identical features across varied ages of rocks, indicating a certain event, such as a flood, may have occurred.
3. The Paleontology record indicates that the global climate was warm and humid, indicative of a flood event.
4. The global distribution of fossil graveyards
5. The rapid covering of animal footprints on the geologic column
6. The global distribution of river terraces
7. Only modern sedimentary layers show evidence of surface drainage
8. The near-random deposition of formational sequences
9. Historically raised shorelines
10. Human artifacts that would be from pre-flood dates are currently undiscovered and thus inaccessible anywhere.
11. The scientific community actually has not discounted the probability that a global flood did occur, just not sure about how or when.
12. Ballard and Pittman's discoveries under the Black Dea
13. Masse's comet theory
14. There are no living organisms today that are older than the date of the flood (ie Redwood trees)

and aside from the obvious references in the Old Testament, the New Testament continues to reference that the flood had occurred...see the books of Job, Matthew, Luke, Peter, and Hebrews.


So, while there is a mound of scriptural, logical, archaeological, and scientific evidence which can easily be concluded to support the occurrence of a global flood....many people, such as yourself, seem to reside on the idea that since no one posted a youtube video of the flood then surely it did not, nor could not, have happened.....which is actually the funnier notion and ultimately is yet another indicator of why many atheists and their ilk are in such an incredibly minority in the "global" population....little genetic defects they are.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Themis
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _Themis »

Drifting wrote:
Samantabhadra wrote:
And sub, there is good physical evidence (not just textual) in support of a massive flood in Mesopotamia some 4-5000 years ago.


Such as?


Here are a couple of sources to start at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis
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_keithb
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _keithb »

LittleNipper wrote:The Bible portrays the good the bad and the ugly. Yes, I certainly do. The very same sort of thing appears to have happened to Noah...


Do you find ugly the belief that your god murdered every living thing on the land mass of the planet that wasn't on Noah's ark? Why or why not?
"Joseph Smith was called as a prophet, dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb" -South Park
_LittleNipper
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _LittleNipper »

keithb wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:The Bible portrays the good the bad and the ugly. Yes, I certainly do. The very same sort of thing appears to have happened to Noah...


Do you find ugly the belief that your god murdered every living thing on the land mass of the planet that wasn't on Noah's ark? Why or why not?

God cannot murder. He is the Creator. Everything belongs to Him. You and I own nothing. We can take nothing with us. We exist because of God and we cannot exist without God. When you or I murder someone without God's due process, we are playing god. God is Love and Peace. However, God is also justice. He hates spite, violence, murder. People reap what they sow. I think it is very ugly for people to imagine that they can do, say and behave any way they wish and that there should be no reprocussions. I feel my God is more than merciful. And the God of the Bible very slow to anger.
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